Ep. 56: Mark Bannon: Author "The Boy From the Cave: A Soul-Stirring Journey From Hopelessness to Faith"

In this episode of the Pivotal People Podcast, we welcome Mark Bannon, an author, speaker, and professional coach, to discuss his upcoming memoir titled "The Boy From the Cave: From Hopelessness to Purpose." Mark shares his personal story of growing up in poverty and the challenges he faced as a result of his difficult childhood. Despite the hardships, Mark developed a strong work ethic and achieved great success in his professional life. However, he realized that he was running from his past traumas and sought to find purpose and meaning in his life.

We discuss Mark's journey of self-discovery, including his exploration of spirituality and his pursuit of various Eastern philosophies. Ultimately, Mark finds his way to Christianity through an unexpected encounter with a coworker from India who radiated peace. He begins reading the Bible daily and emphasizes the transformative power of connecting with God through scripture.

Our conversation delves into the importance of mental health and finding balance in life. Mark advises his younger self and listeners to face their traumas, take time for self-care, and be mindful of what they ingest mentally and emotionally. He emphasizes the significance of reading the Bible and encourages readers to seek their own understanding of faith rather than relying solely on interpretations from others or organized religion.

Today Mark is helping clients as a life coach, executive business coach and a speaker. You can connect with him at MarkABannon.com and on Instagram @markabannon .

His book comes out in August 2023 and is available to pre-order in June.
Learn more here and get a FREE download of the first 3 chapters of the book: https://markabannon.com/

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Transcript

Host, Stephanie Nelson (00:00):

Well, I would like to welcome Mark Bannon to the Pivotal People Podcast. Welcome, mark. It's great to have you here.

Author, Mark Bannon (00:07):

Hello, Stephanie. It's a pleasure to be here.

Host, Stephanie Nelson (00:09):

I met Mark, gosh, maybe a year and a half ago at a writer's workshop. Mark is a writer, he's a speaker, he's a professional coach. He also has decades of experience being an incredibly successful business person. And the reason he agreed to be on the podcast today is because he is coming out with a great book. It's actually his memoir, and it's coming out in August. It'll start selling in June, and you wanna pre-order the book so that they don't run outta copies. I have read the book, I've actually read it twice, and it is the most interesting memoir, not only because he has an incredible history, there's so much to learn here, but because he is so honest, he does not sugarcoat anything. I would recommend this book to anyone. Mark, I'd like you to, and I'll, you know, I've said it in a nutshell, incredibly successful. When Mark does something, he is all in his childhood, really, I think, groomed his work ethic. So, mark, before I go any further, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, and describe what I'm talking about here?

Author, Mark Bannon (01:21):

Okay. Well, first, thank you for that introduction, and it's a pleasure to be here. First off, I'm, I'm married to a beautiful woman, my wife Amy, for 35 years. I'm the dad of two grown children, and I have a great granddaughter, one amazing, beautiful granddaughter. Congratulations. Yeah, it's real exciting. And so I live in the foothills of Colorado now, and I, I kind of hit a big pause button a few years ago when I started the project of writing this book. As you stated, I was pretty active in business through my life. I was actually to a fault, I was a workaholic. I worked 60 to 80 hours a week. I traveled nonstop road warrior they called it in the days mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And we were proud of that. Then, not so proud of it now, but I was on the road for about 200 days a year.

(02:09):

And in essence you know, really trying to, you know, chase dreams and be productive and all these things that society, or perhaps I told myself, but in reality, I was kind of running from a whole bunch of childhood trauma from dysfunction and from a lot of shame that happened in my childhood. So about two and a half years ago, I decided I would quit, take a pause, and I dove into, I said, I'm gonna write a memoir. I'm gonna just sort of examine this story. And well, that turned out to be a, a bit more of a project than I had anticipated. It opened up a lot of portals to the past. Right. And yeah, so that's, that's kind of who I am now and where I came from. There's a lot to talk about with that childhood stuff, but go ahead.

Host, Stephanie Nelson (02:58):

Well, what I think is fascinating in your story is that, you know, your childhood, you didn't have any control over what happened in your situation. And we're gonna talk a little bit about his childhood, so everyone understands what we're talking about. The book is called The Boy From the Cave, from Hopelessness to Purpose. And so as we do, we all respond to our childhood experience and it manifests itself somehow in our adulthood. I'm just curious, mark, with all of your training, have you done the Enneagram?

Author, Mark Bannon (03:28):

I have.

Host, Stephanie Nelson (03:29):

Are you an eight

Author, Mark Bannon (03:30):

<Laugh>? Very good <laugh>. What gave it away <laugh>? Well,

Host, Stephanie Nelson (03:36):

And the thing I like about the Enneagram is that it kind of gives us a starting point and understanding why we are the way we are. It's not a good or a bad thing. We all have a healthy version of those traits, an unhealthy version. So for example, an eight would be a very driven, successful person, which Mark is total great work ethic. And I, this just sort of reminds me of the Paul story, the road to Damascus. So Mark did everything society said he was super successful. He's not gonna tell you super financially successful. He ran businesses, he started companies, unbelievable multimillion dollar companies. He started from the ground up, and as you said, it took its toll. You were gone 200 days a year. I mean, that's difficult for families, but if you turn it around and you say you know, you were led to faith in Christ, right? At a very late age at 55, I believe it was.

Author, Mark Bannon (04:31):

That is correct.

Host, Stephanie Nelson (04:32):

And right, and God pointed you in a different direction. And it's so exciting because I've watched him, I've watched him for a couple years, and now I'm looking at this and you know, where is God pointing you? He is using your wonderful quality of being a driven Enneagram eight to lead people to him. That's what this book does. This book points us to God from very understandable, realistic experiences. We all have the world's telling you you have to be successful. And they measure that in dollars. So you are simply responding to what most people are responding to. And you've turned that around. You've taken this wonderful drive you have, you've written a book that is really good. And I'm gonna tell you people, I mean, he has done tons of training to write this book. He has hired professionals to edit this book. This is a good book. He just didn't throw it out there. He applied his Enneagram eight to writing a really good book. So as you wrote this book, you opened up in the beginning about your childhood. Can you tell us a little bit about that so people understand who you are?

Author, Mark Bannon (05:33):

Yes, I will. So one of the things I'll mention first is the subtitle of the book from Hopelessness to Purpose. I recently changed as it's going, as it went into the final edit phase to a soul stirring journey to faith. So when you talk about Paul and the road to Damascus, yeah, I was raised in faith, but as, as we'll get into a little bit here with the, the story, I very much ran from God. And I've heard a lot of people talk about being angry with God. Oh, I'm angry with God for this. I was never angry with God at all. It was actually quite the opposite. I felt unworthy and I felt a lot of shame. So I kind of ran from God. And that Enneagram eight is something that I'd, I'd love to shed a little bit because you know, it's, it's been this thing that's followed me my whole life.

(06:22):

But to get into it, I, I was born into a very normal middle class family. I'm the youngest five children. I have four siblings, three sisters, amazing sisters, and an older brother. And at eight years old, our life was turned on its head, and we went from living this normal life going to parochial schools and the picnics and all of the stuff that, the normal childhood things. And we ended up in just poverty, living in a concrete bunker in the woods of New Hampshire. The title of the book is The Boy from the Cave. And it's a story, the cave was actually a b a concrete foundation of a house that was never built. So my, my dad went through some stuff in his life. He had his own journey. And at 40 years old, he quit his job, sold our house, cashed in his retirement, packed us all up in a car, and he bought 85 acres of woods in New Hampshire.

(07:21):

And he moved us up there. The, the problem was there was no house. He had this dream of building a campground. So we started out living in a tent in the woods, no running water, no electricity, and everything that goes with that, and eventually started building a campground and a house and all this stuff. But we ran outta money and ended up in poverty. Now, he was a very proud man, and we kept this a secret from the world. We were deep in the woods so no one could see our cave that we called it. It was basically the foundation of a house that would never be, we started with dirt floors with no running water. My mom ended up, you know, doing three and four serving jobs, waitress jobs at the time, we got thrown into dire situations, and it was literally a fight to survive.

(08:10):

So at eight, my brother was 10. We became responsible to, you know, cut enough wood to heat. And it was just really several years of very difficult trauma. My dad was desperate. He was already had his own unmet childhood trauma to a significant degree. And it was just the era where you just didn't talk about that stuff. Mental health was not a term in the sixties and the seventies. There was no such term as work-life balance. And he was a very proud man. So we hid it, and we learned of shame. And it's, it's odd what happens to us in life. All of us. This book is it's a story, but it, it's my story. But it's everybody's story. It's unique in its, but it's not unique in its circumstance. All of us in life will be throwing curve balls. All of us, everyone listening today is gonna have a season of hardship at some point in their life.

(09:08):

Some people will have a season of hopelessness. You know, we're all gonna suffer from some sort of illness at some point, and as they say, nobody gets out alive type thing, <laugh>. So anyway, this life became very traumatic. It became very difficult. And by the age of 15, in the beginning of my sophomore year of school, I ran away and went off on my own. Now, I did finish school. I did end up going to college. I did all these things through sheer perseverance that I'd learned in the hardship of the cave. But all the while I thought I was striving to achieve things. I was really running from things, and I was running from these demons. And so I worked very hard, kept very busy, and just, you know, they catch up with you eventually. And so, as you said, it wasn't till I, I ended up with a great life in a lot of ways.

(10:00):

I, of course, my beautiful marriage and family and children and some business successes you overstate them. There were more epic failures than there were successes. Trust me, I, I think I blew up my world many times, more than most people searching for this purpose. You know, I always felt called, we all feel called, we all know in our hearts that we were created for a purpose. I believe that, believe everybody feels it. And so today, this book, the reason I wrote this book is really to speak to people that are in their thirties, forties, and fifties, that are in the throes of balancing family life and careers in a very noisy and chaotic world today. And I think what happens to us is, you know, in spite of our achievements, it's we, we kind of lose touch with who we are and what we were created to be, or who we were created to be. So this book is kind of a come along story. It's not a self-help book. It's not a how-to book. It's actually an entertaining if, if you've read like the Glass Castle Jeanette Walls, or Educated by Tara Westover, right? It's kind of a story about dysfunction. So I just, with very difficult, with total vulnerability, I tell this story of my story and people will relate to it in their own way, in their own story. 

Host, Stephanie Nelson (11:26):

And so, you know, it's interesting. Yeah, because I've read both of those books. And you're right, this is right in the same wheelhouse as those books. And I, as I said, I couldn't put it down, but you bring the reader into your story because as you said, everyone can relate. And if we could do a little color on your childhood, I mean, some of the examples here, you learned this incredible work ethic. Now you were in poverty. When you say in poverty, you know, your mother is waitressing, trying to keep where you lived. You couldn't see where you lived the road. So people didn't know you lived there. At what age? You, you lived 14 miles from the McDonald's. Yes. Right? And you got a job at McDonald's at the age of 13, even though you had to be 15, I think the manager looked away on that.

(12:09):

And you worked so darn hard. His last name is Bannon. There were five siblings, he was the youngest one. His other siblings had all worked at various, you know, fast food places in town, a very small town in New Hampshire. There was an expression called work like a Bannon. The kids worked so hard. Your sister, your oldest sister would waitress and she would sneak money into your father's desk to help the family pay for things. So when we're talking about working, you hitch hiked 14 miles into town for your McDonald's job, and at night they would hitchhike home on a country road. And if there were no cars, you just walked home. You're talking about a 13 year old kid. So you're kind of minimizing. But all five kids worked like that. The parents worked like that. Your dad had a job. It had to be difficult.

(13:00):

But what I think is so neat about your whole story, mark, is that you and your siblings are so close to each other. You all love each other so much. Your book is dedicated to them. You, your relationships were forged together through this experience. That's clear. But not to minimize, but most people don't have this kind of a childhood experience. Yes, it's traumatic. But you said you wanna shed the an Enneagram eight. I would say no. I would say simply redirect that to the positive, which is what you were doing, helping people find the purpose. I have this question I thought about. What advice would you give your 25 year old self now 25, just for everyone to know. He left at 15. He went to work for a real company busting his tail at the age of 15. They couldn't believe how hard he could work. So by 25, you were rolling in the money, you were successful. So no college degree. So tell us where you were at the age of 25, professionally and personally.

Author, Mark Bannon (13:59):

Well, at the age of 25, that's yeah, the McDonald's story's interesting too, because I, I actually used my sister's social security number. This was back in the seventies, right?

Host, Stephanie Nelson (14:08):

So, okay, statute of limitations is over

Author, Mark Bannon (14:10):

To be able to get a job, right. But at 25, I had a, at that point I was kind of in my really reckless stage of life. At the age of 25, I was determined to never look in the rear view mirror. When I ran away, I vowed never to look back. And I always felt as though there was someone that was gonna pull the rug out from under my feet. That had been the story of my life, you know, when you thought you were safe and you didn't even know of things like hopelessness, you didn't know of hope or hopelessness at eight years old, and yet it was taken away from you. So by the time I became 25 and went out, I, I'd been out in the world for 10 years. I had been working hard, and I was kind of at a state of mind there of, of take no prisoners and just, you know, kill or be killed, you know, it was do or die kind of thing.

(15:02):

So I was on this mission. Now, I always had instilled in me from my parents a great level of integrity and work ethic. So there were no in, in spite of huge recklessness that I entertained in the book with, including numerous near death experiences. In spite of that sort of recklessness, I always had a foundation of values that was instilled by my dad, which I didn't recognize, you know, until later in life. But the advice I would give to my 25 year old self is, is really just to stop running, turn around and face these things. So for people out there that are working to achieve success and so forth, for that 25, 30 year old, I mean, it's very important to connect with your faith. I think that for me, which happened later in life, is a very important thing. Because that pause, you know, I would tell myself to find balance.

(15:59):

I would say, you know, balance yourself in your body, your mind, and your spirit. And those are, you know, those are big catchall phrases that we hear a lot. But simply taking rest for your body, getting rest. I worked all the time so there was no rest. And, you know, and ba and getting out for me now, like I live in the foothills of Colorado, communing with nature is such a place where I feel the presence of God. And I real, it just restores my soul when I'm out in the quiet in these foothills, I, I, to me, it's just heaven. If you could describe a heaven to me, it's where I am right now. And so, but back in that day, I was so focused on these boxes that we had to check off that life told us, you know, you've gotta get a good job.

(16:41):

You know, get a house, get a family, you know, support 'em, be this, go to school, get your degrees. And I think so many of us today are working so hard that we forgot who we are. And so the biggest thing I would say is, is to just take a pause and connect with nature, balance your life out, get some rest. And I think really importantly, what I've learned now is that what we ingest mentally and emotionally is so important. And I was ingesting a lot of fear. I was ingesting a lot of competition, this and that. So mental health is, is an extremely big issue for us. So, so, you know, I would just say what, be cognizant of what we're ingesting. What are we watching? What are the relationships we're choosing to be in? What are we taking into ourselves? And take a pause from that take and, and, and think consciously about what you're actually ingesting into your, into your mind.

(17:46):

And certainly therapy. You know, this is a word that didn't exist when I was a kid. In fact, my dad, you know, came through the Great Depression. He went into World War II at 17 years old. He was the son of an Irish immigrant. He had a brutal childhood himself. He was a tough man. He drank a little too much, being polite. And there was just no, there was, it was the old, pick yourself up by the bootstraps, don't be a sissy, you're a man, you're a this and that. And this was a message I carried with me. So I never examined mental health. I never would turn around and face the demonn, so to speak. I just kept running. And as you get older, you just get exhausted. You cannot outrun it. You cannot outwork it, you can't outy it, you can't outthink it When you have unmet trauma and dysfunction and things, you know, my advice to the, to myself would be stop running, turn around and face it and just, you know, be with it and so forth.

Host, Stephanie Nelson (18:51):

Fortunately, I That is so good, mark. That is so good. I just made a little note of that, cuz that is gonna be your highlight reel. That's beautiful. Because back then, I mean, we're the same age. Therapy was for people who were really messed up. And if you did, therapy would never tell anyone. But today it is so much more accepted. In fact, when I hear someone's in therapy, I think, oh, they're healthy. I actually think the opposite. I actually think, okay, they're facing the hard stuff. They're healthy. So you went through a stage. At what point did you really start seeking out spirituality? Because this is where a lot of young people are today. So a lot of people who are in their twenties, I spoke to a man recently on the podcast talking about this generation. They have lots and lots of questions around spirituality and faith in God, but they don't necessarily feel safe or asking the church for the answers to those questions because they've been disillusioned by issues that we see in the media.

(19:54):

You were also searching for, you said you were raised Catholic, you were kind of, you didn't feel worthy of that. You didn't feel worthy of God. So you were looking for your worth, as so many of us do in your work. You know, I understand it must have been very difficult for you to go to school in your childhood with the secret at home, looking around at the other kids feeling less than. So your ultra success and business, you were way more than so many of your peers. And by the way, your successes were a little more than equal to your failures. You can't succeed if you don't fail. So he's humble, but at what point did you say, okay, I am seeking spirituality because you were all in on that too.

Author, Mark Bannon (20:32):

Yeah. So I went through life and in all of this work and all of these achievements and so forth, I always felt that no matter where I was, I always felt there was some place that I was being called to be. And I, as you mentioned, you know, I, you know, grew up and there's, there's so much good in the churches, but there's also, you know, the churches are people. They're run by human beings. And people interpret the, the scriptures and the word and the message, and everybody's a little bit different. And God speaks to us differently. So I had gotten a lot of mixed messages in my upcoming in from religion, not from faith. Faith is that connection. Faith is the opposite of fear to me, but not from my faith. I never lost my faith deep down, but I certainly lost my religion.

(21:24):

And so I went searching. I actually, at a point in life, I think a lot of us do this. We're looking for that quick fix pill, we're looking for nirvana. And I came, I fell into a period that was very popular back in, you know, a couple decades ago or whatever, maybe even 10, 15 years ago, seeking this eastern philosophies, you know, you know, we're gonna meditate. And, and it, what happened was, for me, I heard this message that was really sounded cool to me. It was this, this, you know, we, you don't have to call God, God, you can call it, you know, energy creation, life, whatever he, she or it may be to you. And, and it was all this stuff about manifesting your destiny. And you can create, and you can do this stuff. Now I am there is a lot of merit to positive thinking, but at the end of the day, it's a, it's a message that's, that was doomed for failure because the curve balls will come and there is no quick fix pill.

(22:30):

So my message in the book really comes down to the fact it's not about avoiding the pain. It's not about outsmarting it or outrunning it, it's not about avoiding challenges in life. It's having the substance and the foundation for the perseverance that you not only can endure it, but you can take those hardships and create something very good and powerful from it. So for me, it took a long time. I am the guy that touches the hot stove over and over and over again. So what happened with me is I got really into this Eastern philosophy and being that Enneagram eight, if you're gonna do something, oh, big all it does in <laugh>. So I went all in. I actually went on a 16 year journey deeply into, first I started looking into shamanism and Taoism and Buddhism, and I ended up on Hinduism and so forth. And I went, yeah, I did the whole bit. Went to India State in ashrams. I I got certified as a meditation and structure, an Ayurvedic health consultant. I went to seminars, I read every book there was to read. I read the bag, Vada and all these, the Opana shots and the ancient wisdom and all of this stuff. I hiked in the Himalayan Mountains and, and I even dunked in the Gge River. That's, and his

Host, Stephanie Nelson (23:52):

Wife went with him too. So the woman is a saint, I must say. But

Author, Mark Bannon (23:55):

She is a saint. She is stuck in there through some wild rides. But

Host, Stephanie Nelson (23:59):

You know what, God is just so clear in your story, mark, because that whole journey led you to him.

Author, Mark Bannon (24:06):

Yeah. It's, it proves that God has an incredible sense of humor, right? Because what he did is he used that journey to bring me to Jesus, right? So, so what happened real quickly give this story, but what happened was, in all of this, I'd been 16 years into it and I was gonna, you know, find this, this perpetual peace. I was gonna co-create my existence and life would be bliss and everything would be fine, and I would be at peace. And so what happened was, I, I met this guy from India. He actually came to work with me. And I looked at this guy and he was born in India, raised in Hinduism and so forth. And I looked at this guy and he just glowed. He had this light coming from his eyes. And I'm working with him and I start telling him about my journey in India.

(24:52):

Everything I know about the Yana shots, I'm speaking Sanskrit phrases to him. I'm talking about the faith, the Artis, the, you know, you name it the whole bit. So after about two weeks, he just would encourage me that, that's great, brother, tell me more, tell me more. And finally, after about two weeks, I looked at him and he looked so peaceful. And internally I was saying it, I was talking the talk, but I really wasn't walking the walk. I really didn't feel peace. I really kept, I just was still fighting to stay ahead of it. I was still seeking and searching. So I finally looked at him and I said, you know, I'm a fraud man. And he goes, what, what do you mean you're a fraud? And I said, I'm talking the talk about all this stuff. I've been 16 years, I have been quote unquote religious about pursuing this spirituality, and I'm not feeling it.

(25:41):

I'm not at peace, and you're at peace. I said, what's your secret? And he looked at me and he smiled and he put his hand on my shoulder and he said, I'm glad you finally asked brother. He said, I'm a Christian. And I almost fell over. And he said, he said, you wanna know the secret to peace? And I said, coming through my shock of hearing this. And he said, I converted 26 years ago. He said, read the Bible. And I'm like, what? He's like, read the Bible. And I said, well, wait a minute. He was have, he said, you've done all this reading. You study for four hours a day. You're reading all this stuff. You, you know, and I, and I, he said, have you ever read the Bible? And I'm like, well, no. So he said, read the Bible. So that's what started it. And I picked up the Bible. And so in my book, I, I don't do a lot of preaching. I just share my story. Yeah. And, and going back to your original question of how people are feeling so misdirected and so forth, or confused with the messages coming out, even from a lot of the churches is honestly my advice is just really read Bible. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> the Bible speaks to us. It really is the living word. It's hard to describe it, it sounds odd that I'm even saying it at this point.

Host, Stephanie Nelson (26:51):

I completely agree with you. I have this experience too. It's, it is, it's like rather than hearing an interpretation always, it's like going back to the user's manual. Whenever I hear something, you know, someone's theology, a friend says something and I haven't read it in the Bible. I say, I haven't read that before. And she'll say, I know. I just, it's just kind of what I came up with in my head. We don't know what people come up with in their head, but when you read the Bible, you're hearing it straight from Jesus. Yeah. You know, read, read the words and read. But I love, I love this because Mark is all in, he is so authentic. So when your friend told you read the Bible, he picked up the Bible the next morning at roughly 4:30 AM when you get up and he has read it every day since. Maybe you've missed a day or two. I'm not, but the point is, is that he actually did dig in and read it. And I love what you're saying, the living word, because every time you read it, you can read the same verse as a hundred times. It speaks to you differently because God is speaking to us differently. We're at a different point in our lives.

Author, Mark Bannon (27:54):

And, and I, the churches are great, and I do go to church. I found a great church, and we all have to find the church that speaks to us. And, and faith is really big on my life. And yes, I do read the Bible every single morning. I get up every single morning. It's eight years now, seven and a half years, and I spend the first hour of my day reading the Bible. I've read it cover to cover, I highlight it market, and every single day it's so, it, it touches me differently. And there are many days that I feel nothing, but I read it anyway because I know it's going in there. But I think you did a, I listened to a podcast I think a couple weeks ago. I, it was Bonnie Gray and mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. He talked a lot about the church and the faith.

(28:35):

You know, I, I think what happens is, and one of the issues that, that I'll probably touch upon in my next future books are, you know, mental health and the church, right? Because there's so many of these messages that come to us that say, oh brother, just pray. You need more of the Holy Spirit and let me put some hands on you and this and that. And, and it's, it's, it's true. We all need faith and so forth, but we also need mental healthcare. We also need to, to address trauma and dysfunction that occurred in our lives. And it is probably not a person that's listening to this podcast that has not had a season of hardship and hopelessness. I can't imagine. And most people I find after talking about stories have had trauma. And it doesn't matter how we define it, it's not a matter of degrees or this story is this much bigger.

(29:26):

It's how it, it affects our life and our being going forward. So, and especially in this busy and noisy world. So my advice is, you know, obviously don't, don't short, you know, your mental health pursuits and you know, just kind of double down on faith, check it out, bond with nature, feel your heart, connect with yourself when you get rest. And when you bond with nature and when you connect with God, it helps us to feel who we are and it helps direct us. So my book, you know, basically proves that God has an incredible sense of humor. <Laugh> he'll use anything to bring him back to us. He absolutely never abandons us and it's never too late because, you know, I, I'm the guy from that came to Christ again in, at 55 years old at

Host, Stephanie Nelson (30:16):

55. But I have a feeling you might have another 50 years in you. So <laugh>, you know, I think that your, your message is gonna reach a lot of people for a long time. This has been so great to talk to you. And you actually have on your website, I think you have some free chapters

Author, Mark Bannon (30:33):

Where you have, I do. My, my website is mark mark a bannon.com. So it's, it's just simply my name, m a r k, at m a r k, middle initial a, last name Bannon, b a n n o n.com. There's, you can download some free chapters, the first few chapters. The book will be coming out in early August and pre-sales will be starting will be happening in June. So I'm really excited about it. I'm, it's really an honor to be here. And, and if you visit my website, you have to join my mailing list to get the free chapters though. 

Host, Stephanie Nelson (31:09):

It's actually a good mailing list because you send out some really cool inspirational videos and you're walking in the foothills. I live in Colorado too, so I can totally relate to the bonding with the nature, but well worth it. You can also, you have information, you can text Cave c a v e 2 44 1 44 to join. And I'm putting all that in the show notes so people can find your book. They can find your website, they can find your blog, and they can also find out how to get you as a speaker. So I think people are gonna wanna hear from you. I have noted like three parts of our conversation that are gonna be highlight reels. So I appreciate it. And I have sons in the twenties who are definitely gonna be listening to this podcast episode. So thank you so much and I look forward to hearing how the book does.

Author, Mark Bannon (31:56):

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure. It's

Host, Stephanie Nelson (31:59):

Been great.

Author, Mark Bannon (31:59):

Thanks. Take care. Thank you.