Pivotal People
Join us in conversations with inspiring people doing amazing things. Their insights and experiences help motivate all of us to find our purpose that fits with our abilities, gifts and life situation. Get a "behind the scenes" look at successful people making a difference in the world and benefit from their advice for the rest of us. Our guests include authors, artists, leaders, coaches, pastors, business people and speakers.
Pivotal People
Breaking the Chains of Toxic Relationships and Embracing Self-Worth with Stephanie Quayle
Have you ever been caught up in the deceptive charm of a toxic relationship, unable to pinpoint the moment when admiration turned into manipulation? Stephanie Quayle, a celebrated Nashville recording artist and author, discusses the complex ties that bind us to unhealthy love. Her collaboration with Dr. Keith Campbell in the book "Why Do We Stay? How My Toxic Relationship Can Help You Find Freedom" helps readers understand narcissistic relationships. Stephanie shares her personal saga and her healing process to help readers who may be impacted by similar relationships.
Learn more and get in touch with Stephanie at:
https://www.stephaniequayle.com/home
Her book comes out April 30th and you can pre-order it here:
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Do-We-Stay-Relationship/dp/140024451X
Order Stephanie's new book Imagine More: Do What You Love, Discover Your Potential
Learn more at StephanieNelson.com
Follow us on Instagram @stephanie_nelson_cm
Follow us on Facebook at CouponMom
I would like to welcome Stephanie Quayle to the Pivotal People podcast. Not only does she have a really great name, she spells it the right way she is a Nashville recording artist. She's traveled around the world with her music. She has her own record label, big Sky Music Group. Rolling Stone Country called her an artist you need to know, and CMT named her as part of its Next Women of Country. She's appeared on programs like the Kelly Clarkson show and the Ellen DeGeneres show. She's also performed at CMA Fest and the Grand Old Opry. Anyone who lives in the South knows that's a big deal. Aside from all of those accolades, I have personally visited her YouTube channel and listened to all her songs. She has an incredible voice and she writes her own songs, and her songs are a story. She has come out with a new album which actually mirrors her book that we're going to be talking about today.
Speaker 1:On top of being an artist, she has written a book. I jumped at the opportunity to interview her because I think this is a topic so many of us can relate to, especially women, but we're really ashamed to talk about it. Her book is called why Do we Stay? How my Toxic Relationship Can Help you Find Freedom. She has written this in partnership with a Dr Keith Campbell, who is a social psychologist who specializes in narcissism. As you read the book, of course I've read the whole book. Of course I love the book. Stephanie shares her personal story. She's honest, she's authentic. Then, at the end of each chapter, dr Campbell shares research and practical strategies for how to cope with this topic that we're discussing today. It's narcissism, it's toxic relationships. We're going to be talking about Stephanie's relationship with the man, but I relate it and I heard also relationships I've had with women and friends. I think this can apply to many relationships in our lives. That's too much talking, but I always talk too much. Stephanie, welcome, thanks.
Speaker 2:So much for coming on. Thank you for having me. This is such a gift. I'm excited to share this story. As you said, there's so much shame that comes with our choices. Sometimes I say that word choices because I made my choices. I have unwound a lot of things, healed a lot of things and own that. I think that's also really important in our story because I think a lot of times we can say what's happened to us in a way where we don't have to own our stuff. Part of my purpose for this book is I had to own my story so that I can be as honest as I possibly can to say, okay, this is what I did. I pray and hope that it doesn't take others as long as it did me to get to the other side.
Speaker 1:I'd like you to share your story if you don't mind, but we talked a little bit before we started the podcast episode about why you decided to write the book. Because you didn't need to. You have a successful album, you have a successful career, but clearly you felt a calling to write this.
Speaker 2:Yes, when I first put out the album I didn't really know how that was going to resonate. I didn't yet have the book deal that was in process. I knew back when it happened that this could be a book one day, because it was just so stranger than fiction. I never thought it would take on the form that it has. As I was writing it and starting with it, we just saw a greater opportunity to help more people.
Speaker 2:I've been in service my whole life To take my story in something that I tried to avoid and turn it into something that the mess turns into the message. I've heard that quite a few times and I'm like well, that's pretty right on, and I lost so many years. I lost years. I'll never get back from relationships to emotions that I didn't heal right, and so my hope is that this will be a tool for others so that they can truncate that time and not lose those years. And I think that's, you know, the beauty of God writing our ships and when our roads are very curvy and go everywhere but forward. Sometimes, you know, we get such another opportunity with you.
Speaker 2:Know anything that's redemptive? And this story is a story of redemption because I'm still here. As you read in the book. There were times where I considered not being here, and so my hope is that it's an extension for others to you know, stop avoiding the stuff that scares them. Not in suggesting writing an album and putting out a book publicly Not necessarily that but to be able to know myself to the every little crevice that I've been avoiding, to be able to own all those and love those little crevices and accept those little crevices and know that I was already complete before I was told I was incomplete.
Speaker 1:That's right, and the key about the book for me was first of all your story. I think more people than you realize are going to find it relatable, but it's just not something we're going to talk about. You know, maybe you're not talking about it with your friends. Maybe women are in a marriage, maybe they're in a relationship, maybe, as I said, they're in a friendship. So to get real practical, would you mind sharing kind of the background of your story, because you say it's stranger than fiction. People love stories, and then we'll really drill down into practical tips and strategies for people to recognize these issues, to recognize toxicity, how to get out of it, how to heal and really leave people with some practical ways to help their situation if they find themselves in something similar.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm going to take you back to January 28th of 2009, which is 15 years ago. That's a long time ago. 15 years ago, I was in a very serious relationship, building a life with this man, raising his daughter with him, and I thought I was going to marry him. All the things, all the things that come with our hopes and dreams, and a relationship that we think will be in forever.
Speaker 2:And it was a Wednesday night. He was a pilot you know, private pilot. He would take his plane out now and then, and on this particular day he went flying and he the engine stalled, he tried to turn back on the runway and the plane crashed because of, you know, fuel and the altitude. It was inevitable that it was going to be unrecoverable, in every sense of the word. And so I got the call. I was home with his daughter and she was doing her homework and I was making dinner very, you know, just a simple night.
Speaker 2:And I didn't know at the time that he was gone. I was just told there was an accident. You better come quickly. So I threw Eden in the car. We drove ridiculously fast. It was like my car had wings, because I don't I don't remember if I turned off the stove. I did things like this that we just go into adrenaline. We just go into, I think, as in my case, as a mother figure to her. I just wanted to get her to her dad if she had one more moment, and again I didn't know where we were at. So we got to the airport, ran to the runway and he was gone, and that's when we learned of that. That was Wednesday, so five days later we had a public memorial for him at the airport and that's the day I learned that I wasn't the only woman. Wow, yeah.
Speaker 1:And other women thought they were the only woman too. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I don't know how many, I don't know how long. There are so many still unknowns and I don't know that I'll ever know all the unknowns. It was so unraveling, as you can imagine. I quickly put my grief away and just lived in that anger and betrayal and just looking at everyone through a lens that they were being dishonest. Anyone that would come across maybe like oh, they're a liar, I wouldn't trust anyone. No one outside of like my family and my few few people. Everyone was a suspect in my mind.
Speaker 1:Now would Dr Campbell say that he was a narcissist. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, Dr Campbell had lots of choice words for him which was very helpful actually, because I think when we hear things from our family of the magnitude of when something is unhealthy, we don't hear it through the same ears as when we hear it through the ears of an expert, right, like my dad could have said the same thing which he did multiple times about this being a bad guy. I had rebellious daughter ears like no dad, you don't know him right.
Speaker 1:So at the same time, one of the you know we hear a lot of these terms. This is a super popular term right now, but it's actually a small percentage of the population, so we can use this term incorrectly. Really, and people are on a spectrum. So someone who I might call a narcissist might just be a very self-centered person. Narcissism is different than just being super self-centered.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think you know there's exactly. There's spectrum with it. All right, with anything there's spectrum and nuance. Everyone has to be a little self-centered for survival. I think there's like a survival mechanism of that. This is like when you can pathologically lie and deceive and manipulate and have no remorse. Right, that was my experience with narcissism.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile, you're taking care of a daughter and helping her with her homework and cooking dinner, and so in your story you talked about, you kind of went over the lifespan of the relationship and they were all like very understandable and logical to me. I mean, people have arguments, right, right, and you get over that, and but how long were you in the relationship with him?
Speaker 2:Well, I wouldn't know, according to him, if you went by his calendar, but we started dating in 2005 and then he died in 2009.
Speaker 1:So in my mind it was close to four years, four years and he was much older my shoulder and so probably pretty practiced at this. Can you give us some examples of what you know? Dr Campbell uses terms like love, bombing, gas lighting, ego, shock, repetition, compulsion. These were new to me. Can they're all new to me? He said these are cautionary signs of unhealthy relationships and in the book he educates us on these so that we can spot those in our own lives.
Speaker 2:What were some of the things that missed. You know now, obviously, having the, the information, I just didn't have it. Then, you know, love bombing I didn't really experience it in it with him as much on the front end as I did. Like our first year together was just dreamy. I just thought that was love, right, like it was his life was. He created a world that was larger than life with just how he was very charismatic, very, you know, everyone wanted to be around him. He just had that kind of presence and I really experienced the love bombing when I started to question him and I would either get one of two phases with him.
Speaker 2:I would either get you know my last name, only where he would call me by my last name, which would always make me wonder now, like was he trying to keep from calling me one of the other women's names? And that was, you know, quail is very easy to not confuse, insecure, crazy, and so whenever I would, you know, I even feel myself doing it now and I would cock my head kind of sideways, being like that doesn't add up or that makes me ask it was always met with either quail, you're so crazy, you're insecure, why, we know, why do you always do this Right Versus actually answering the question posed, or it was? I'm going to give you everything you want. We're going to get married, have a family. You're not, you know, do all your career all the things.
Speaker 2:So usually when I was leaning in, I would get crazy and secure, and when I was, hey, if you don't want me, I'll go, that's when it would. Just he would double down.
Speaker 1:My girlfriend and I have talked about this with. That was this acquisition mode. She said when they're in the acquisition mode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, the conquest, right, the key. I don't know that I have the answer of this, but it seems like it's like a collect.
Speaker 1:It's yeah, it's collecting Right, Beating the ego, but he was able to keep that pretty secret. So now in retrospect, we're always so wise and retrospect we all have things, stephanie that we go back and we say oh my gosh, what was I thinking?
Speaker 1:But you know, that's how we learn, that's how we grow and in your case, you know, I read lots of books from women who are wiser than I am. They have saved me time. They have saved me time and they've saved me some emotional mistakes. That's the goal, that is the hope. So you have some topics you talk about. I love this. Am I in a toxic relationship? How to know the warning signs? Mm, hmm, do you? You know, looking back, what would you say would be some warning signs?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that if I were to start with myself, right, does this person make me question myself, make my head go like this? She's cocking her head to the side, cocking my head yes, so, for those that aren't watching cocking my head to the side, and are they making me feel smaller in order to make themselves feel bigger? Yeah, you know, those are things that all happened and I was in it going well, I must not be up to par, I must not be enough. I need to get better, I need to work on me. I'll read more books, I'll. I'll do more things, I'll try to cook, I'll pick up the you know, his daughter from school, whatever it was. I'll do more versus just being enough. I was always trying right.
Speaker 2:And now, of course, looking back, I wouldn't accept a lot of that behavior without just, you know, going through all the questions, warning signs too, being like isolation from family and friends. That's a big one, and I don't know how much he was the one creating that, as much as I was not putting myself in a position to be questioned by my family, which is an indicator right there. Right Is a flag right there. So you know, kind of starting with yourself and going like would I tell my best friend what's going on with them? Like if I was watching one of my best friends going through the relationship that I did I would have. I would risk the friendship for it and I had friends that you know tried to speak into it and we didn't know, obviously, that none of my close friends knew to the level in which he was behaving terribly, but just the way he treated me. I wouldn't allow my best friends to be treated like that.
Speaker 1:And it's almost. You don't know the difference until I have to say Stephanie is happily married now to an absolutely wonderful man. You have to read the book. It's such a happy. It's such a happy. I'm not going to say ending because it's not over. I mean, you have this wonderful life now and this wonderful album, this wonderful book, and this is a podcast, so you can't see her, but she is drunk. Oh, gorgeous, gorgeous. So you know, as I listen to you, what I'm hearing is how easy it is for any of us to feel like we need someone else's affirmation to make us feel worthy and complete. And what you said at the very beginning of this conversation was that we really need to know we are worthy and complete. You know, god created us. He loves us completely. It's icing on the cake of someone else likes us too, but that is not what determines who we are.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent, and I'm just now at almost 45 years of age, after 15 years of this. What you just said, finally, has clicked for me, and going back to what we shared earlier, this is to truncate other people's healing time and understanding time so they don't have to go through the kind of pain in my case that I went through. I'm hoping that, like, let's shrink that time. Yeah, sure, that time, yeah. And now I'm really happy being alone, which is so wild. You know, I'm such an extrovert and such a, you know, from on stage I'm performing here and there and everywhere, and, and you know, I used to find myself in moments of loneliness, but there is no lonely, I've found, when you really enjoy hanging out with yourself and God.
Speaker 1:Amen, I mean that is so I am so on the same page with you. Now I'm 60. It took me longer to learn that than you, so good, good job on learning that.
Speaker 2:But yes, but isn't that cool that we have our span and then we have listeners, younger and older, that are hearing this. That might not be there yet, and hopefully that just gets to click for them quick.
Speaker 1:Yes and worthy. Then when we flip it around and say, okay, wait a minute, I do know, I do know I am loved by God, he totally gets me, he totally understands me. I don't have to alter how I am, but wait a minute, wait a minute he gave me extra.
Speaker 1:So there's that woman over there who doesn't feel that way. Can I lean into her, can I make her feel better? Can I affirm her, can I be a friend to her? Absolutely, and I think we are really called to do that. And then you know what happens, stephanie, you think you're being nice by befriending someone and they end up being this wonderful friend and you're the one who's benefiting from the friendship. But we need to do that for each other, and especially for the people who haven't understood yet that they're totally accepted and they're totally fine the way they are. God isn't going to love you anymore and he's not going to love you any less, no matter what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now it is really beautiful when you can take all the try out. That doesn't mean that we don't have to, like you know, take care of ourselves and treat ourselves with the utmost you know, care and courtesy and do the best we can. But when you think about like we're not meant to try, we're meant to be what God has created us to be and then go be the greatest version of that, it's all the try out of it. It just means like we just got to go do.
Speaker 1:In the way that you are. So you know, just as not all of us are. I mean seriously, once you hear her voice on YouTube, you'll be like, okay, wait, not all of us are going to have a beautiful voice, but you know, I make a great chicken salad, so that's what I'm holding on to.
Speaker 2:That is something that I will come over and you'll teach me your ways and I will sing as you make and I'll be your little like helper.
Speaker 1:Oh, that would be great. Making chicken salad to Stephanie Quayle's soundtrack, that would be so great. One of the things I wanted to ask you. Okay, let's go to your list, you have some really good. You talked about how to identify a toxic relationship. How do you rebuild your life after a toxic relationship. This is why your book is called. Why Do we Stay? I look at that and say, well, because it's hard to leave. It's like the devil we know is better than what we don't.
Speaker 2:And also I think that a lot of us include I mean myself highly was I just wanted to believe in people so badly? I just wanted to believe the best in people. You know, when you said this can happen, and you know friendships and business relationships and all that are. I just want to believe people are good and I just want to believe that the potential that I know that they are, they will eventually get to. Well, let me help you folks, take the potential out of the conversation I now very much just run with.
Speaker 2:When someone shows me who they are, I believe them, and that goes both ways. I don't try to make them better than they are. I don't try to make them worse than they are. You know, in our minds, you know how we can, we can I just this is what it is, and there's so much freedom that comes with that because it doesn't become about us, right? I think every time we're thinking, oh, this person is doing this because of us, or you know, I did something to know. It's just, people are who they are and we have to allow them to be who they are and believe them. And I say that to myself as well. You know I'm, I consider myself a woman of my word. Well, I got to be a woman of my word, because how we show who we are is what people will believe that is so good and we can't change anybody.
Speaker 2:No, that's exhausting. I remember my mom said I was like you know, if only he would change. She goes honey, she's so cute, she's so strong and so cute in her little tiny boys and she's so strong and, but she's a little voice. She said if you think he's going to change, the only one who will be changing is you. Oh, that's good, that's a copy bug.
Speaker 2:That's mom man. Mom's always show up with these one liners. They just go straight for the jugular. And she was so right. You know and and I think when you're with your person, you love all the stuff, all the things that you would never consider loving, even things about my husband. I'm like man. I love all his little quirks and weird things and he loves mine and clearly we're made for each other, because there's no way that you can put people together. That's the beauty and the redemption of when we are whole in our own self. We get matched with our person.
Speaker 1:And, as I say, once, you know all their quirks and they know all your quirks, you're not going to change this because, frankly, I don't want to get to know any new quirks and I surely don't want anyone else to see my quirks. So it works right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are. We are who we are and I think people can change when they want to change for themselves, but we don't change for other people. That's right. We change when we're like okay, it's like, I have to change. In my case, I had to make changes because I was repeating my pattern. You know, toxic one, toxic two, toxic in business. It was getting. It was in Sidious was that the word I'm looking for. It was just spreading in all aspects. It was all over. Let's see, it was all over. It was all over and I had to make changes in me in order to prevent that from ever happening again.
Speaker 1:Stephanie. How did you do that? How did you make those changes?
Speaker 2:Well, I'd like to say it was quick, but we both know that it took 15 years, a lot of different work. So, first and foremost, I was told and it was out of love On the day that I learned of you know me not being the only woman. It was like you have to move on right Now. That was said to me with love, because my family didn't want to see me hurt, my friends didn't want to see me hurt. It wasn't.
Speaker 2:This is going to be hard, this is going to be a lot of work, and the only way you're going to get through this is by doing the work, because you can't get around it, you can't avoid it. It will catch up with you Tenfold. We're going to have to do the work and in my case, it was like we're done with him right? Well, that's not how it works. When it comes to grief and emotion and all the things and unpacking the layers, especially when it comes to guilt and shame. Shame is such a. This is the easiest way to describe the difference. I made a mistake. I am a mistake.
Speaker 1:Exactly Brené Brown.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so potent.
Speaker 2:And when I think, how many times I said I am statements, I am the problem, I am the mistake, the amount of shame that I've harried for so long, and even into my marriage.
Speaker 2:You know, my husband knew, he knew, he knew that there was work still that was going to need to be done, but he was very patient. His love and patience is how I know we're meant to be together, because I don't I don't know that anyone would have stuck it out. You know, it's really hard to watch someone hurting and not be able to fix it. You know, and I really just look at him with such just awe for the compassion and and he could see it but he also knew that he couldn't make it happen. It had to happen on its own. And so what I would say, going back to your question, is recognize, if you're in a toxic relationship and you're getting out and you've made the decision to get out or you're just out, you've got to get through it and there's a lot of resources in order to get through it in a healthy, responsible, responsive way. You know, in my case I should have been in grief counseling immediately.
Speaker 2:Now anytime I meet someone who's grieving, I'm like go to grief counseling. There are so many resources that are free that are free, so there's no excuse and I made every single one and I can say that because I did so. When I say that, it's not preaching, it's just saying don't do what I did, right, I don't want you to write this book. This book has been written, you know it's. It's like make new mistakes. That's what my husband always says don't make, don't make mine. Make new ones. He says to to make my step kids. But and that would be the first thing and I would also say that I wish I would have taken time for that process. I didn't know how much time it was going to take, so I didn't give it any time, right, I just pushed through and I do believe it compounded.
Speaker 2:And when we avoid our stuff, it gets very hard to manage and that then also leads right into you know, repeating it. Right, because I hadn't healed it. And then I fell into another toxic relationship and that took a big toll. Because that was when I said out loud to this toxic number two we'll call him in the book he's referred to as the prince I just said I'm done and it wasn't done with him, I was done with me. I was done hurting, and I was willing to consider taking my life. That's how serious it got because I just had no, had no solid foundation at that point. And, gosh, when I think about how to have this book, you know if I'd had a me that just said, hey, maybe just read this book, listen to this audio book, or listen to this podcast, or hear the story about what happened to this woman? You know, sometimes it's hard when people try to tell you what to do. Right, you can share it, someone else's story.
Speaker 1:And then you see him in the story. Well, I have to tell you, I'm going to tell you my story. So my story is that Stephanie's publicist contacted me and asked if Stephanie could come on the Pivotal People podcast and she'd come out with this book. And I thought the book looked interesting and of course I'm going to have a Stephanie on and so I always read everyone's book, whether it's a topic I'm interested in or not. I always read it, because it's not going to be any fun to talk to you unless I've read your book, and it's always so much fun to talk to an author once you've read the book. So I read your book with the you know kind of the you know academic approach and I'll tell you what. Everyone has to read this book. And you just have to, because I got to the end and she talks about forgiveness.
Speaker 1:Now I'm getting a wee pee, All right, it was so good. Forgiveness. We all know forgiving sets us free. We all know that. And you know, Stephanie, it's just perhaps the way it was written and perhaps it's because I'd gone through the whole book and it had ended there and you had your own story. It took her 14 years to finally forgive. And then Dr Campbell wrote a whole piece about forgiveness from you know, a scientific research standpoint. You know I copied every word of that passage it was two pages into my personal journal. Really, I read it out loud to my husband, I read it out loud to my son and I am praying and praying about it. And I have to tell you I feel like the weight of the world is off my shoulders. On one particular issue. I had oh wow, and it wasn't a narcissistic guy relationship. That's what I'm saying is these are these are concepts and lessons we can apply across our whole life, so we will stop wasting our life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh man, I tell you what forgiving him was the only way I could get to forgiving myself, Because I mean, I'm like just like the bathroom is just back here and I like I turn off all the lights and I sit on the floor and I do my little prayers and I'm a country artist. It's dramatic and I remember doing my prayers and this part of my meditation which is all about forgiveness, and it was like I hadn't forgiven him and I didn't even realize, you know, in all of that I hadn't. And so on the anniversary of 14 years last year, I forgave him and this is a part that's not in the book because it just happened and I felt good, I'm like years going great, I've got the music and the book and everyone's healthy, Like at the end of the day, everyone's healthy and that's, you know, such a relief. And the summer I found myself angry and I couldn't. I couldn't put my finger on it. And then it hit me like a train. It was like you haven't forgiven yourself, You've done all the work and I hadn't really forgiven myself, Can write the words, but the work of forgiving myself. And so then it was like every day I'm sitting there and I'm like I forgive me, I forgive me. I'm like, go through the list. I go back to like when I was my first memory, you know, like when I bit my brother when I was two or what. I'm going to forget all the things. And then it was this like just light bulb, God wink, divine moment of you haven't been water baptized.
Speaker 2:And I called up my pastor of my little church. I watched online down in Birmingham Alabama and I said is there anyway, on January 28th? Oh, the date, yeah, and the crazy, beautiful, wonderful. You know, nothing's crazy, it's just all like it's all orchestrated in the way that we can never. God has our calendar, Let me just put it that way.
Speaker 2:So the 21 days leading up to the 28th, our church was doing a fasting and praying thing for 21 days, and so back in December, when I saw that coming up in January, I was like, oh, January 28th, it's a Sunday, I can drive from Nashville to Birmingham Alabama and get baptized. Well, I didn't really pay attention to the rules, because I, you know, I get these ideas and then I just run and they only do baptisms on the first Sunday of each month. Well, this was the last Sunday and so I called and I just kind of pleaded my case and I just begged can we, can we do this on this date so I can have this day back where it's no longer a day of mourning and grieving but it's a day of rebirth? Yeah, A new creation. New creation, and I got baptized and I'll kid you not, it was like finally felt.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:Forgiveness for myself. So now when I read that those words, and in the audio book, when I say those words, it's a hundred percent true, it's on folk, it's healed and that's really cool, I love that and I am sure when this book comes out, it comes out.
Speaker 1:Is it April 30th? April 30th? It comes out April 30th. People can order it now on Amazon or anywhere. You can order it anywhere. Stephanie, you have your website, which is Stephanie Quaylecom. You got it and Finder on YouTube. I've already said that you want to hear. I am certain you're going to be hearing from a lot of people and people who might not be able to share their story with anyone else.
Speaker 2:What you so like mind blowing and awesome, and I just really appreciate you sharing your experience with that. It's really something, well, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:You know, for me it was like wow, I just thought I was reading a free book. I didn't know I was going to have this wonderful experience. That's awesome. But I want to thank you so much and I wish you the best of luck with your book launch and your album and congratulations on doing the work and hopefully you can save other people a lot of time.
Speaker 2:Well, right back at you and thank you for making the space to share it and for taking the time to read it, because a lot of times people don't read it and that means a lot to me. Well, I love it, so thanks for giving me your time.
Speaker 1:Thank you, stay in touch.
.jpg)