Pivotal People
Join us in conversations with inspiring people doing amazing things. Their insights and experiences help motivate all of us to find our purpose that fits with our abilities, gifts and life situation. Get a "behind the scenes" look at successful people making a difference in the world and benefit from their advice for the rest of us. Our guests include authors, artists, leaders, coaches, pastors, business people and speakers.
Pivotal People
The Joy of Closing: How to Become Incredibly Successful in Sales with Bob King
Discover the secrets to becoming a master closer with Bob King, renowned author and sales expert. Bob shares insights from his new book, "The Joy of Closing: The Definitive Guide to Building Trust, Getting the Deal, and Creating Happy Customers." Tune in as we unpack the art of closing sales with integrity, delve into the emotional journey essential for effective salesmanship, and explore how these principles can transform not just your career but also your personal relationships.
My career was in sales, and I wish I'd read Bob's book or worked for him early in my career to learn how to achieve true sales success by closing deals that were the best for both the seller and the buyer.
Even if you're not in sales, Bob's strategies apply to many different types of relationships and situations in our lives. It's fascinating and inspiring. "The Joy of Closing" can equip you with the skills to inspire beneficial changes and make intuitive decisions, enriching both your professional and personal life. Whether you're a seasoned salesperson or seeking to enhance your connection-building skills, this episode is worth your time.
Connect with Bob King:
Order his books and watch his videos: JoyofClosing.com
https://www.facebook.com/BobKingDirector
https://www.instagram.com/bobking3400/
Order Stephanie's new book Imagine More: Do What You Love, Discover Your Potential
Learn more at StephanieNelson.com
Follow us on Instagram @stephanie_nelson_cm
Follow us on Facebook at CouponMom
I'd like to welcome Bob King to the Pivotal People podcast. I am so excited because Bob has a new book out and I have read it and I truly believe everyone needs to read it. Listen to this podcast, you're going to find out why. Here's his bio he wrote the book called the Joy of Closing the Definitive Guide to Building Trust, getting the Deal and Creating Happy Customers. He's an author, a closing coach, a filmmaker and a sales superstar who consults with sales teams and sales professionals of all types, from retail to in-home sales, to business to business, bringing one call magic to pitches, curing slumps, boosting team performance, turning total strangers into happy customers, often at the very first meeting. He's won a lot of awards. Okay, that's the bio. Let me tell you what I have read this book.
Speaker 2:Super easy to read.
Speaker 1:And before you turn this podcast off because you're like I'm not a salesperson, I don't need to be Okay, this book, bob, offers insights and teachings that apply to all of us in our everyday lives. So kind of like Dale Carnegie's book you really want to learn some of these principles. And even if you're not in sales, you might know someone who is in sales who would like. Kind of like Dale Carnegie's book, you really want to learn some of these principles. And even if you're not in sales, you might know someone who is in sales who would like to be a lot more successful. So, bob, welcome. Thank you so much for taking your time to be here.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. It's a delight. Let's get pivotal Stephanie. Let's get pivotal Pivotal.
Speaker 1:He's changing the world one book at a time. So I told you, I read this book. I was in sales myself for 10 years, and so was my husband, and I'm retired now. After I finished the book, I came out and I said to my husband okay, I am going to go get a sales job because I want to do it right this time. And then I came to my senses and realized retirement's a little better. But I do have young people in my life who are salespeople. And in case you're wondering what we're talking about here, we're talking about closing sales, which is a different ballgame and we're really going to get into it with Bob. One of his quotes which I loved is they're not paying you to be a presenter, they're paying you to be a closer and flip it around. The most successful, the most financially successful salespeople are the people who understand what this means. So, bob, let's get into it. How would you define for the layperson? Give us a definition of what closing is.
Speaker 2:Technically, closing is everything that happens after you present price. So you've made a great presentation, you've found common ground, you've done whatever you do. That's your presentation. You tell them how much it costs. That's always the finale of your initial part of the meeting and then it's as a technical term. Closing is everything that happens after that. So it's their reaction to that. It's working with their resistance to get them something they want ideally, or it's, you know, not getting the deal because you ran away after the first no or believed a lie that the customer told you. Which is the most natural. The most likely response is the customer is going to tell you a lie when you present price. And we can get into the details of all that.
Speaker 2:But the book I wrote is also, you know it's being a closer rather than being a salesperson, because anyone who's been on a sales team knows there's about 20% of the sales team that does 80% of the sales and those people are closers. And when I found out how to do that, I mean it's the first 40 pages are kind of a work biography, which is crazy, because I was hired by scoundrels and I was just curious how they did it, because I love con artist movies and I'm a filmmaker. And then I started selling stuff and the first thing I realized was all the things that I needed to do to earn a customer's trust and get their business and get hired were all the things I didn't do when I was in the film business. And why my success? You know, even though I had some success, I got to make two features but I never really convinced people to hire me.
Speaker 2:And when I figured out what I was doing wrong and then got to change, you know how I approached a potential customer. I went from someone who basically was hired five times in 19 years in the film business to someone who was hired four and five times a week by total strangers, usually on the very first day that I met them. What's shocking about that is not that it's possible for me, but all the ways that it improved my life in order to be able to do that, even though initially I was working for scoundrels. But earning someone's trust is a powerful experience and really fueled my development as a human being and who I wanted to be to. Those customers actually fueled my success, and we can get into all the details of that, but anyway, so the book in terms of the closing and the title. It's really the whole picture of how to be a closer and not a salesperson.
Speaker 1:And I think that is what I mean when I say that, even if you're not in the profession of sales, the insights that you share in your book apply to all of us, because a big piece of what you just said you talked about if anyone in sales knows what he's talking about, there's part of his book where he talked about that exhilaration you feel when you leave a sales call and the customer has said yes, you are exhilarated. And Bob said you know, it's not because of the money, it's not because you walked out with a check. You actually probably haven't even been paid yet. That exhilaration is because somebody trusted you, you bridged a relationship. These are the kinds of skills that if we brought into our personal relationships, would improve our lives. It's that feeling. So when you talked about, you know in the beginning, working for Scoundrels I do love stories. Could you just tell us your story, how you landed?
Speaker 2:in sales and kind of what the progress of that was this is crazy people, so I was a guy who, you know I always loved con artist movies the Lady Eve is my favorite movie, the Sting, dirty, rotten Scoundrels, the Grifters. I love movies where people do the right thing for the wrong reasons or the wrong thing for the right reasons. I love that. Just I love those kind of stories. And I was kind of well, it was 2009. I just had my ass kicked. I've been in the film business.
Speaker 2:I made a couple of movies, sold a script that got made and you know I'd had some success, but it never really paid my bills. And what paid my bills was real estate. And I got clobbered by the global economic collapse and I had to make money. And I went on this job interview and this was a guy and it was for selling solar power, and it was the guy that could sell you a blender at the state fair on a day. You never thought about blenders and I kind of knew he was up to no good, but I wanted to know how they did it. So I, when he said to me you know, look, I don't say this to everybody, but this is yours if you want it. Are you in or you out?
Speaker 2:And you know I had to make a decision, you know, not get back to him the next day. He wanted me, right then and there, to decide whether I was going to do this training that paid twelve hundred dollars, which was my rent. You know, learn what I was going to learn. And I asked him, do you do the training? And he said yes, and I was in, and then I did the training and I found out the little trick that they do, all of which is in the book you get to read all about. If you ever wonder, like you know, why you bought a car on a day you were just looking, or a timeshare, or anything else Like I, will kind of tell you how they did it. It's really how you create urgency.
Speaker 1:Anyway, we they did it. It's really how you create urgency. Anyway, we'll get to that. Yeah, I loved your. I took a bunch of notes on your book. We'll come back to that because I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:So I took the job. I ended up taking the job. I took the training. I didn't think it would ever.
Speaker 2:I figured I owed it to him to go out and sell stuff and I didn't the first two meetings I went to.
Speaker 2:But then he wrote greed on a chalkboard and I realized that I had to engage the customer's greed using their technique, and I did, and then that started a journey and that was not the end of the journey and I'm not proud of putting people in business with that company. But I ended up working for a great company and I had to figure out how to engage my customers, well, how to close them without using their greed or without making that the only reason they were doing it. I mean, no matter what you're going to create, you know one seat left at this price is not meant to. You know that's to get one thing from you and that is to engage. You know your greed to create urgency and that's just a part of sales, but it can't be the only reason someone does business with you. Or you're probably working for scoundrels and I was and I left there and worked for other scoundrels and then eventually, really a great company, a couple of great companies, and here we are.
Speaker 1:Now we said he worked for scoundrels, but the skill that you learn there, if you can sell ice to an Eskimo, my mother used to say, then you can take those skills and, as you said, you ultimately worked for really good companies and now you can teach other people these good skills to be able to be more effective in their jobs. One of the things that I thought was so interesting. I'm jumping around here, but you talked about what motivates buyers and I'm sitting here reading actually I plugged in what motivates my husband to take the vacation that I want to take. You know how do I convince my husband that? Hey, you know what? So you talked about a sales call is a monologue that the customer perceives as a dialogue. Yes, how about this?
Speaker 1:The limbic brain. You know what that is? The limbic brain is kind of that lizard brain that doesn't have a whole lot of logic. It loves to make intuitive, impulsive decisions and is activated by emotional stimuli like desire, excitement and engagement. I mean, don't tell me you bought the BMW because it's the only car to buy, right? There's some stuff there.
Speaker 2:So you I actually think some of the best decisions we make, and certainly the ones we feel the best about, right. If you make an analytical decision and it turns out the lowest price option worked out, great for you. There's no real satisfaction in that, but I mean there is, you get what you want. But it's sort of like this it's okay, it's not. You know, it's like you bought the cheapest toothbrush online Okay, but when you actually trust another human being to be an expert, you take their advice, it's always a leap of faith, right?
Speaker 2:Salespeople are change agents and the reason sales is a highly paid, highly valued job is because change requires commitment. And when you can inspire another human being to make a commitment to a change, especially one that's beneficial to them, you know that's a really good choice. That is an incredibly satisfying experience, not just for you, the salesperson, but also for the customer. You know they love being right about their intuitive decisions, and that intuitive decision is almost always based on trusting another human being. You know, part of my book is like no, let's be cheerleaders for expertise and sage advice and the patience and kindness that it takes to work with someone's resistance and get them something they want. That is truly being of service, not just making them want something and spitting out a price that just makes them vulnerable to either a cheaper price with an inferior product oftentimes, or maybe just someone with an inferior product at a higher price. Who knows?
Speaker 1:how to close them. And the ideal, as I read this, is if you work for a company with a product or a service that you believe in, then you really are doing something kind to a customer by leading them to your product or service. So I think the key is you were in a desperate situation. You had to pay your rent. The economy was terrible. You did take a job that perhaps it wasn't the product or service that you believed in. Ultimately, you did get to that. But if people can start out with saying I want to work for a company with a product or service I believe in, it's going to be a whole lot easier to feel good about what you're doing. You talk so much about being an expert in your field B and X. Don't take the shortcut, because that's how people are going to trust you.
Speaker 2:But also this also gets to commitment, because you cannot inspire commitment on your customer without being committed yourself. You cannot inspire commitment on your customer without being committed yourself, and the big difference between closers and salespeople is their level of commitment. And so I'm also asking the closer or the salesperson who aspires to being a closer to really commit to the idea that moving forward today or moving forward in general is a great idea.
Speaker 2:And that requires effort. You can't just sit at the cash register reading your horoscope and look up and say, can I help you? That's not going to get the job done. You have to take interest in another human being and really try and be of service to them in ways that are powerful and meaningful to both of you.
Speaker 1:And people might be listening saying I still don't quite understand what you mean. Okay, so, bob, if we were to look at salespeople in general? I'm only gonna guess this.
Speaker 2:I think I can speak to that for one second, though. The other definition of closing is getting another human being to take on your agenda and think it was their idea, right? So anyone with kids if you have inspired someone to propose to you or clean their room or apply for college or whatever it is, you are, in one way or another, a closer. You cannot get through this life and be in relationship to other people and not have the ability to close somebody at some time. Other people and not have the ability to close somebody at some time? The question is, how good at it are you? You know? Are you doing it by threat? You?
Speaker 2:know, yeah, it's their idea if they'd rather do that than something awful that you're saying will happen if they don't, but it's better if you really find ways to make it their idea that are meaningful to them, and that's another skill that you know. I think closers have that ordinary human beings don't, and it's something that we all have access to. It's just a matter of creating the consciousness that allows that to thrive and motivation wise. You know it's not just I mean, yeah, for me it's earning someone's trust.
Speaker 2:That's what's incredibly powerful about getting a sale, but it's different for everybody and I really want people to connect's what's incredibly powerful about getting a sale, but it's different for everybody and I really want people to connect with what's in it you know what it is for them, and not make it shallow like, oh, I can take my family on vacation, but something really meaningful to them as a human being usually about the other human being, and that's been really fun to explore in my coaching work and also consulting with other sales teams, because it's very individual and it's, you know, it's in general earning someone's trust, but there are nuances to it that are extremely meaningful.
Speaker 1:Let's stay on this topic of trust. So let's say you've done you know someone's done a good job of gaining trust as an expert, gaining trust as a person. They did a good job of asking for the sale, they got the sale and then it's done, versus the salesperson who says, okay, I've got the check. I'm going to continue to follow up with this customer to make sure that it's going well for them. And you talked about how the most, the best, the least expensive customer to obtain is the referral.
Speaker 2:Especially nowadays, referrals and five-star reviews are really the key to success for your company, for sure, but also they can fuel success for you, even if it's a one and done and you're never going to talk to that customer again when, know when, all the things you tell them in that sales call come true for them. It's really powerful. It really fuels your confidence to bring other customers into the fold because you know you made someone happy or your company was able to make someone happy, based on your ability to get them to make a commitment. That's that's really meaningful, really powerful. That, I think, is an undervalued thing, you know, because it's so easy to get caught up in, like rising to the top of the sales board or cashing a big check, but the personal aspect, I think, is more powerful than anything else.
Speaker 1:So for people who've never been a salesperson, so this is who a presenter is. Okay, so let's just, for the purpose of this discussion, let's say the most effective salesperson is the closer. Yes, let's say the 80, 20 thing. I think 20 might even be high.
Speaker 2:for the 20% of salespeople being closers.
Speaker 1:And so the 80%. I've been guilty of this in my sales career. You, you're nice, you know the customer likes you, you know their kids' names and you know their favorite hobbies and you are good about writing thank you notes and that sort of thing. You make a presentation that's really good, you know all about your product, and then you're like gosh, I don't want to be irritating. I'll follow up with you, or do you have any questions? Super soft, the closer, depending on what you were doing in home sales for solar power initially.
Speaker 2:So I've coached people in all kinds of industries B2B and B2C.
Speaker 1:Yes, so that sense of urgency is what the closer Well, so it starts with the presentation.
Speaker 2:So you mentioned, like the warmup, you know, the kids and all that stuff. So you've taken an interest in the others. Don't do but because they think that their product's so great or their company's so good that the best idea is always gonna win. And that's just not how the world works. Fortunately or unfortunately, we are human beings and how we perceive each other is really the more important. You know.
Speaker 1:Oh, could you say that again, bob. That is so good. You have to say that again. It's not just the product or the service, that's the best idea.
Speaker 2:It's how you communicate that to the customer and how you inspire them to make a commitment to your product and service and company. So you mentioned a good warmup, which is what a lot of novice salespeople just don't know how to do. They feel it's icky or uncomfortable to just pay attention to that. I mean, there's a lot of talk about empathy now in sales literature and stuff which is a nice name for just giving a shit about the human being that you're sitting in front of or next to or whatever. But so you mentioned that because that's often things presenters will leave out is the warmup. But so you're not just a presenter, you're tiptoeing into closing. But the main difference is having a sales presentation, but I call it a pitch that takes that prospect on an emotional journey.
Speaker 2:It's not just telling them how of what you do, or you know even some of the why. It's really taking them on an emotional journey. And the first thing most presenters leave out is making that customer feel the pain of their current situation and the pleasure of your solution. And so when you sit down with a closer, you don't know why it's more engaging, you don't know why this person is fascinating you. And you've heard, you know, five or 10 pitches on this thing, right, presentations, you know quotes, but all of a sudden, this one person is just like making you on the edge of your seat and you can't wait for them to tell you the price so you can say, yeah, let's do this. That person is taking you on an emotional journey and engaging with your limbic brain in ways that presenters just never do.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, most time, when you talk about product, there's a central aspect of it, like in a car you're going to take a test drive. Or I used to sell tea, you know, and I would do a tasting and people would want it, right, but I didn't know how to create urgency. I didn't say, look, if you commit today, I'll buy up your old stock, or something like that. You know, the other thing that happened when I learned how to close people is I realized that was my only other sales job and it was part-time and you know, I was still trying to make movies but but I love tea and so, whatever, I took the sales job for this woman. She still owes me $16,000, according to the state of California but she taught me a lot about presenting and it was really great, but she didn't teach me how to close.
Speaker 2:And the moment I started this training with this you know the guy who could sell you a blender I realized like, oh my God, all I had to do was create a tiny little bit of urgency after I presented and that customer would have jumped. Like nine out of 10 of the people that said, yeah, well, as soon as we get through what I've got already, we'll be calling you. And you know what happens if you've been in sales long enough, they don't call you. They don't call you. One in 10, maybe, and that just ruins. Now you're going to sign up 10 more people who won't call you. You know, even the one in 10 actually hurts you because they give you false hope instead of actually working their resistance. At that moment, when you have their attention, when they want what you have more than they're ever going to until they understand the beauty of your product and are actually using it, the closest they come to making a commitment is when you've given them a dynamic pitch.
Speaker 2:In the book I call it One Call Magic, which is a condensed version of the 12-step classic One Call Close techniques, but it applies to almost any product that you're selling, or goods or services, even B2B, because even in a B2B sale, you may not be meeting with someone who can say yes, but you're definitely meeting with someone who can say no and you have the element of surprise exactly one time.
Speaker 2:Right, that's the first time you meet with someone is the only time they don't know about you, your product or company or all the things you're going to tell them that they don't see coming. And if you don't have that, if you don't have things that no one else is telling them, you probably need to work a little bit on your expertise or at least frame it in a way. That is, if you engage your commitment, why would you use your product? Why is your company the best choice for someone? Why do you work there? You start asking yourself those questions that engage your commitment to what you're doing. Your presentation is going to be a lot different, but you still need to learn how to close them if you really want to be of service.
Speaker 1:Well, as I said, I was in sales for 10 years for someone else and then I think I had my own business. So you're constantly selling your concept of your business. So call that another 15 years, and here are the things that jumped out.
Speaker 2:This is another thing that you're saying. There's so many things you're saying that I have to disengage you.
Speaker 1:Hopefully is it OK if I respond to that.
Speaker 2:So you own the business.
Speaker 1:I did, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So let me tell you about business owners Business owners are closers for a couple of different reasons, and it's not just because their stakes are higher. That's the least of the reasons you created that business to fill a need that you saw. You saw a need. You said I bet if someone did this they'd be successful. And then you created that business, correct?
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 2:So you are deeply in touch with the why that your company exists and you're going to talk about that to the customer in a way that the great presenters that you bring in because oh, now I can step back and I can build a sales team and then you hire a bunch of presenters because they talk about the product better than you but they don't understand the why of your company and they don't talk about that to customers. They're not personally connected to it in a way that business creators see, you know, the one who creates the company always is, and that gets communicated to customers because they feel it so strongly, even if they're not great at communicating it, it's still there, right, right. That's usually missing when they hire that first sales team. And then the other thing is you know your company's intentions. You know you're going to take great care of them. Even if something goes wrong, you're going to do everything you can to get it back on track and make sure they never regret that decision.
Speaker 2:And that is not something that someone who isn't the creator or the owner of the company naturally brings to a sales call. So when I work with and it's like my little stock, my niche, whatever, is different and better. So when there's a company that has a product that maybe sells at a premium price or even higher than premium price, that depends on the customer understanding the value of that proposition I can work with those companies and bring them success so fast. It's amazing companies and bring them success so fast it's amazing. But the other niche I have is owner users owner CEOs that want to expand their sales team and then can't understand why these really skilled salespeople aren't having the same success that they are. And it's really those two elements the understanding the why of the company and the commitment to making things right even if stuff goes wrong that owners always have and salespeople rarely do. Closers always have it and that's how you turn a salesperson into a closer.
Speaker 1:And I noticed something cool on your website, which is the joyofclosingcom.
Speaker 2:Joyofclosingcom.
Speaker 1:Okay. So if I was still in business with my salespeople, I said I would buy this book for every single one of them. He has a great deal. If you buy 20 or more books, your sales team gets a live online Zoom call with him, a training, live online training with him. I would buy 20 books even if I had five salespeople. You want the live training. You know, bob, as I was reading your book and I was saying if I could rewind the clock and go back, or if I could train the women who worked for me who did not? A couple of the younger women. They did not really care about the mission, and you can't get people to care about the mission unless you spent some time on it. I don't know why. I just automatically thought everyone would think it was as fabulous as I thought it was.
Speaker 2:It requires commitment. You have to invite people into commitment. But the funny thing is, more people can be closers than you think, because it's so addictive to earn someone's trust that once you learn how to do it, you become a little desperate to figure out what you did right.
Speaker 1:I have to tell you here's one of the elements I just loved in your book. So we talked about the warmup. Okay, you got to read more about that. That's authentic. No empty compliments. Don't look at someone and no comments on physical stuff. Don't look at someone and say, oh, I love your hair you talked about especially. You know, if you go into someone's office or you go into their home, it doesn't take long to look around and see what matters to them. Like I see you have three dog paintings behind you.
Speaker 2:This is my hall of dogs. I think you like dogs? I don't usually do my Zoom calls from here, but I saw your painting up and I'm like yeah, that's my best friend, my best friend's an artist so I always have her painting. Wait, who made that painting?
Speaker 1:My best friend, Meg Mercier in Martha's Vineyard. She's a fabulous painter. Her paintings are all over my house. Wow, that's pretty cool. She has a client in Martha's Vineyard who owns 18 of her paintings.
Speaker 2:And you have great taste too. I love the color of those bookshelves Just are beautiful. They set your face off well. It's a beautiful. It's a beautiful setting that you've created.
Speaker 1:It's a nice place to do my podcast, but back to, so you can go see, there you go. He just complimented my office, which I, you know. I took a lot of time picking out these shelves and I love my books, so he noticed what mattered to me and I just, I almost, you know I didn't even recognize that, and here I am talking about it. He didn't say I like your hair. You know, you walk in and you compliment someone on something shallow. It doesn't feel real. But so he says, look around and like guys, we don't have to be on a sales call to do this Any friend, any neighbor, look around and find an opportunity to be kind, any neighbor. Look around and find an opportunity to be kind. Just say something kind, be authentic and kind. So then, okay, so now you've got the warmup. Okay, so now-.
Speaker 2:It is the first exercise in the book and a sincere compliment lifts all boats, because when I find a way to recognize and appreciate another person's creativity, it makes me in a state of generosity and kindness, and it is impossible not to like someone who does that. It really is so it turns your sales call from what can I get from you to who can I be for you? Okay, I wrote that quote down.
Speaker 1:Let's say that again. That's life. Okay, it changes it. From what can we get from each other to who can we be to each other? I mean, that's pretty powerful. So here he has another. Okay, now we're moving on to a closing technique. In case everyone's saying what is closing exactly? Oh, Bob, I love this. He calls it the dynamic duo. He learned it from somebody he worked for. These are oh, actually, this is during the warmup Two open-ended questions you asked during the warmup.
Speaker 1:This is what I'm going to try with my husband on this vacation. I want to go on that. I know he's not so excited about. Here's question one how long have you been thinking about buying, you know, let's say, a new car? How long is? The salesperson says how long have you been thinking about buying a new car? Okay, and then secondly, what made you decide to do it today? Oh, is that great. You've just walked in, At the very least. You said this will surface objections if they don't. Oh, I, I didn't say that I was buying it today, but this week it gives you something to hold on to. Now you've got a reaction that you can deal with.
Speaker 2:Well, it also puts the idea of doing it today front and center. So they have a chance to get used to it, they have a chance to react to it. So you kind of know what you're up against and they may just go. Well, you know it's time and suddenly your closing gets a lot easier because they've already decided they're going to do it today in a weird way. So if they agree with you, that's great.
Speaker 2:If they say we're not doing this today, you're like, okay, well, great, I'm going to give you all the information you need to make an informed decision and you can make the decision when you feel the time's right or there's a lot of million reactions to it. But those two questions and the reasons in the warmup is it is a great transition from you know, finding common ground, paying a sincere compliment, all the things in the warmup to actually turning your attention to the service or product you're there to provide. So it's lets them know you're serious. But it also just puts on the table something that you know they're either wondering about or not thinking about and either way, it gives you a chance.
Speaker 2:Because when you say, when you present, the idea of doing it today you need to be absolutely calm, totally comfortable with the idea that this is the day you're going to make a decision, because I'm going to give you all the information that you need to make a decision. It's a great technique.
Speaker 1:Another technique I liked was you talked about, you know, quantifying the pain of not making a change. So, for example, if you were selling solar energy, the, you know if you want to delay a month, you're going to have another month of paying more for electricity. How to quantify that? Okay, so you want to wait two months. That's going to cost you this much money. I mean, they think that your product is too expensive, but there is a cost of not switching as well, and so that I thought was brilliant, because you're pointing out their status quo and you're putting a price on the status quo.
Speaker 2:You have to make them feel the pain of their current situation. By the way, they invited you to their workplace or they came into your storefront, even if you're selling retail, they saw something in the window that made them want what you have, and so you just need to connect them. I mean, now I'm going, how do you do that for retail? But there is a way. You don't want to make fun of their outfit, obviously, but essentially you are making fun of their outfit in terms of if it's a B2B or something like that, where you have to say here's what you're doing now, and then you map it out at the expense of it over 25 years for solar power or 10 years or whatever you're selling. You know product life and here's. You know, and it's important to say, this is what your future looks like without what we have for you, and just let them sit there and wallow in it and be uncomfortable and then show them, you know, a glimpse of what it's like with your product and maybe that's drawing a smooth line, you know, based on cash purchase or something like that for solar.
Speaker 2:But there's always and you want it to be visual if possible. Visual is a really good way to communicate the pain of their current situation. If it's economic, just a simple graph is usually the best way to get that across, or there's different ways. But insurance I work with a bunch of insurance agents and we've thought of a great visual way for that. But you want to make them feel that what a lot of salespeople won't do is just kind of get in the customer's emotional space to connect them with why they wanted to talk to you. And that's a really important emotional beat to hit. Because if you've ever had a massage, a massage is just not, I mean, the kind of massage I like.
Speaker 2:It's not just rubbing you and you know it's they get in there and it hurts a little bit, and then you have pleasure and you've got to rough them up a little bit if you really want to motivate a change.
Speaker 1:I love that I had. I was a failed customer. Years ago my husband thought that I needed a nicer car. I drove a Honda Accord for 14 years. My business was called CouponMomcom. I was all about frugality. I remember him saying at your age thanks, honey, at your age you really need a nicer car.
Speaker 2:I think he meant with your level of success.
Speaker 1:Yeah, say it nicer.
Speaker 2:And my two sons.
Speaker 1:So seriously. He got me to the BMW dealership. Now, for me, driving a BMW would be like wearing a bikini to church. Okay, I'm not going to do that, but I thought I'll just humor him. And so that poor sales guy he was it was my husband and sons who got me there, it wasn't me, and he did try. And he asked the question now why is it that you want to get a BMW, Bob? I hope they're not listening. The only answer I could have is because I know it would bug my neighbor, the one who's not nice to me. I know it would bug him. That's a terrible reason.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then- I'm not sure if you're connected to it. At least he got something out of you.
Speaker 1:Well, that was a true confession, and that's an awful thought. We all have awful thoughts, so I just want to let you know of my awful thoughts, so maybe yours aren't as bad as mine. But the next question he did not identify that technology was not my win. I mean no, a person like me should not be driving a machine that has such excellent engineering as a BMW. I mean, that is a crime. So he proceeded to show me the 18 adjustments for the driver's seat and I was out. I can't even operate our remote control for the TV. 18 seat adjustments, that was it, and so unfortunately, I did not buy a BMW and I drove my Honda Accord for another 10 years. So you do need to know your customer and unfortunately for this young man, I did go into his dealership, but it's not always because they want to.
Speaker 2:Well, you know but that's also part of closing is really understanding whether I mean he might've done better to say, well, maybe this isn't the right car for you, maybe you're looking, you know, because that's a, that's a close. You can say, you know? I mean I worked with a guy that his whole pitch was like you know, we sell premium products. You know you just want the cheapest price. And the customer would be like no, no quality matters.
Speaker 2:And then he'd say like, yeah, but you know this is a big investment, you know, and, and yeah, you're going to save tons of money over time tens of thousands of dollars but you know it's going to cost more per month than you're paying now initially. And the guy's like, yeah, but, but, but, but, you know, but over time it's tens of thousands of dollars. I want to save that and the guy would just go. So are we doing?
Speaker 2:this and the customer would go, I guess. So I mean, I'm really bad at that particular form. The only time it's ever worked for me is when I really didn't think it was a good idea and I would tell the customer no, you have this, that and the other thing, it's going to be impossible for you to go solar and then they go like yeah, but I want it.
Speaker 2:You know it's weird, but that can be an approach. He just wasn't in tune here. You said it was a guy. I think you said it was a guy, but that salesperson was not in tune with why you might want to do it or wasn't adept at getting you in touch with those reasons. You know there's always a reason for a customer forward.
Speaker 2:But you know there's always a reason for a customer to move forward. But part of it's also like maybe it really isn't the right choice for you and helping a customer understand that if that's not on your menu of items, you're just not really being of service to that customer. You know it's not about always getting the sale, it's about it's my favorite Christmas movie. You're either Miracle on 34th Street or it's a Wonderful Life and I'm very Miracle on 34th street, or or it's a wonderful life and I'm very miracle on 34th street, and it's a wonderful life.
Speaker 2:Oh, you are Well so and I, I I've had a BMW, I love that car and I, you know, drive a fast car now because I like to move around fast on a car. But there's this but, but when you know he does that thing where he sends the mom over to a different department store and that brings success to Macy's I guess they're at. I want to be that guy, I want to be the customer. If there's a better choice, I want to guide the customer to that choice and my willingness to do that will get a lot more sales than the customers that I lose because I'm telling them to work with someone else and I think that's a great way to be in the world.
Speaker 1:That goes back to the idea of referrals and trust and relationship. You just don't know where that's going to lead. Come to think of it, that young man probably could have sold my husband a BMW that day. He didn't pick up on that, I just noticed. I looked at my clock. I always keep these to like 25 minutes. Bob, I could talk to you all day long. We've gone over time. I don't care. That's so fabulous. I want to make sure people know where to find you. And again, if you order 20 copies of his book, you get a free, online Free books my God, that's nothing.
Speaker 1:You should jump on that. This is a great gift. You don't even have to be in sales. This would improve our relationship. So the joy of closing the definitive guide to building trust, getting the deal and creating happy customers. How can people find you, bob? What's the best way?
Speaker 2:to find you. My book is on Amazon, all markets all throughout the world. There's an audio book that I recorded, as well as Kindle and paperback. Reach me directly. Just use my website, bob at joyofclosingcom, or just go to joyofclosingcom, hit the contact Bob link and we'll set up your sessions or however you want to engage Also on LinkedIn. Also have Instagram, tiktok, which I barely update, but I have some stuff that I can launch on TikTok. So I have some stuff that I haven't uploaded that I'm going to upload and, yeah, I think there's a Facebook page as well.
Speaker 1:But the main thing is my website. That's the best way. Joy of Closing that's so brilliant For people who are too young to know this. There was the joy of closing that's so brilliant for people who are too young to know this.
Speaker 2:There was the joy of cooking, so that's kind of the inspiration for it.
Speaker 1:So that's what I'm thinking, but it's certainly memorable. Yeah, it looks like this there's my book, there's this book. Oh, the S in closing is a dollar sign.
Speaker 2:My ex-boyfriend came up with that.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:Yes, credit where credit is due.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much and I wish you the best of luck.
Speaker 2:Thanks for reading my book Like that's the thing and I'm so glad that you enjoyed it. It means the world to me. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate being able to talk to the author, so thank you so much.
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