Pivotal People
Join us in conversations with inspiring people doing amazing things. Their insights and experiences help motivate all of us to find our purpose that fits with our abilities, gifts and life situation. Get a "behind the scenes" look at successful people making a difference in the world and benefit from their advice for the rest of us. Our guests include authors, artists, leaders, coaches, pastors, business people and speakers.
Pivotal People
After Baby Comes: Communication and Boundaries for New Parents
Rachel Taylor, registered nurse and childbirth educator, joins us to discuss her book "After Baby Comes" which bridges the gap between healthcare models and mothers' needs during the critical "fourth trimester." Her practical guidance serves as an essential resource not just for new parents but for anyone seeking to improve their communication skills and relationships.
• The fourth trimester extends beyond the traditional six-week postpartum period, with mothers healing for up to two years after birth
• Distinguishing between baby blues (affecting 80% of mothers in first three weeks) versus postpartum depression and anxiety which typically emerge later
• Modern parents face unrealistic expectations from social media influencers showing seemingly perfect postpartum experiences
• "I feel" statements create vulnerability and connection instead of defensiveness and distance in relationships
• Setting boundaries protects your wellbeing rather than punishing others—and can be done with kindness
• New fathers need space to develop their own parenting style without criticism
• Practical ways to support new parents: focus on the mother's wellbeing, offer specific help, and respect boundaries
• Communication skills from "After Baby Comes" benefit all relationships, not just those involving newborns
Find Rachel at mamadidit.com and on Instagram @mamadiditofficial for evidence-based resources on pregnancy, postpartum, and breastfeeding.
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I would like to welcome Rachel Taylor to the Pivotal People podcast. Rachel has written a book that is going to help all of us. It's called After Baby Comes. These books did not exist 30 years ago when I had a baby, so I have learned so much from Rachel's book, not just about how new parents can adjust to the time after having a child, but how all of us can be better communicators and have better relationships. So let me tell you a little bit about her. She's a registered nurse and childbirth educator, specializing in the care of mothers and babies. She has 15 years of experience as a postpartum nurse, and her passion is to bridge the gap between the current healthcare model and a mom's needs in what she calls the fourth trimester. I love that. Rachel founded a company called Mama Did it, a brand for a woman's journey throughout pregnancy, postpartum and motherhood, and she lives with her husband and three children in Birmingham, alabama, so she knows what she's talking about and I just want to welcome you, rachel. Thanks so much for being on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you for having me and I told Rachel before we started. Of course, this is how God works. This book was so perfect for me right now because, if I haven't told you already I tell strangers on the street my son and daughter-in-law are having their first child in two and a half months. It is our first grandchild and I honestly had no idea how just the news of this coming person was going to change my view of the whole world. It's just changed everything. We're so excited. So maybe I'm a little too excited because in reading Rachel's book I was like, okay, to change my view of the whole world. It's just changed everything. We're so excited. So maybe I'm a little too excited because in reading Rachel's book I was like, okay, I'm the mother-in-law, right, I could really step in things and it's my sweet daughter-in-law isn't going to tell me.
Speaker 1:So one of the most important parts of Rachel's book for all of us she has a wonderful chapter on communication, interpersonal communication. We're going to go through some examples of that. So if you're listening to this podcast and you're not about to have a baby, you don't know anyone who's about to have a baby. Our discussion on communication and boundaries is going to be well worth your time. Rachel, tell us a little bit about this concept of the fourth trimester.
Speaker 2:Yes, so the fourth trimester was coined by Dr Harvey Karp and he's a pediatrician, so he recognized that postpartum doesn't just last six weeks. Traditionally in our culture that's how we define it, but moms actually heal and recover for up to two years after giving birth to their baby, and so giving more room for that, the fourth trimester just encompasses the first three months after birth.
Speaker 1:Okay, everyone knows, I'm like 61. Last time I had a baby was 30 years ago. I'm still recovering. It's the idea that you know. Back then your doctor said you know, in six weeks you'll be fine. And I love this book After Baby Comes because Rachel really talks practically about what's happening physically, what we can do nutritionally, taking expectations off. When you think about it, your body just produced a person. Yes, I mean that's a miracle in itself, but your body has to go back to normal. And I loved when you said you know, we're told six weeks everything should be fine. Well, no, that's not. And so for women to have this expectation that they're going to be the same same size and the same body six weeks later is a little unfair.
Speaker 2:Oh it is. It sets us up for failed expectations. You know, we think we're doing something wrong if that's not what our six week looks like.
Speaker 1:Right, you have so many examples in your book as a nurse, of people who you've taken care of so much has to do with. I'm just going to say we didn't know this stuff. And when I say this stuff, let's talk about. There's prepping for postpartum. You call it and, by the way, when I heard postpartum the only and listeners might understand this too the only context I ever think of postpartum in is like postpartum depression, which is one facet in you know, preparing yourself for this fourth trimester. But postpartum is everything after childbirth. It's not just depression. Can you talk a little bit about that? The different nuances between you said baby blues, postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum OCD there are many different varieties of this. For those of us who have loved ones who are about to have a baby, it would be really helpful to understand what those are and how it kind of shows up.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely so. Just tacking on to your point so the word postpartum literally means afterbirth, and so you're right. Like postpartum has become just the same as postpartum depression, which is unfortunate because there's so much packed into postpartum but a little bit of the differences between all of those. So baby blues this is a normal thing that moms can experience. We see over 80% of moms going through baby blues and it's just a transition period, the first three weeks after birth, where you are exhausted. You know you have this baby that's not sleeping for long spurts of time at all. Your hormones are very much going up and down and up and down, and emotions can just be very labile during that time. But usually baby blues levels out on its own within three weeks.
Speaker 2:We see like postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, ocd all that tends to kick in after that three week mark. So it's a good indicator for moms like give yourself about three weeks, let's see how you're doing and then if after three weeks you are still experiencing, you know, moods that you really feel like are out of control or really intrusive thoughts that feel traumatizing, like we may be looking at a postpartum disorder. So postpartum depression is different than postpartum anxiety, although they tend to go hand in hand. So a lot of moms that experience one do experience the other, and postpartum anxiety tends to come first. So what that looks like in a mom can be very intrusive thoughts that she can't shake, you know, and to an extent we have those in postpartum because of the changes in our brain. But when they begin to feel traumatizing or overwhelming or I can't sleep because I can't get rid of these thoughts you know we're looking at postpartum anxiety, which then tends to give way to postpartum depression, postpartum OCD, those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:So one of the things you talked about which I think is so interesting, rachel, is the idea of you know social media influencers and there's a. We all know there's a wide range of social media influencers. You might have a physician, might have a, and then you might have someone who just calls themselves an expert. Maybe they've had one child, and so new moms who have followed social media influencers, who might not have as broad of experience let's just say it that way can come into it with some really unrealistic expectations. So in reading your book, I was encouraged because, I mean, I'm on Instagram and, as you can imagine, right now all of my reels are cute little babies, because I'm stopping and I'm watching. They're usually cute little babies who are really excited to see their grandmother. I'll be specific and so I can see how a new mom would be getting her Instagram feed, if she's on social media, flooded with various social media influencers, particularly some who might be paying for sponsored ads. Again, nothing is wrong with being on social media when you're an expert, but it's probably important for women to really try to filter and try to understand and to read your book, because everything in your book I thought was super healthy and super balanced. One of the things I love that you said and this applies to everything something might be common, but that doesn't mean it has to be normal. And could I get specific? And first of all, rachel's book has super practical tips on the physical side, like super practical guidance for breastfeeding and super practical guidance for how to take care of your body as it recovers, and good recipes good recipes for recovering mom, good recipes for breastfeeding, to actually help your milk supply. I thought that was super interesting, how to kind of get back to your old self.
Speaker 1:But if we get past the physical, she talks and this is where I really relate. It talks about communication and the fairy tale that we meet Mr Perfect and he proposes just perfectly. And then we have the beautiful wedding and, oh gosh, we're newlyweds in the honeymoon, just perfectly. And then we have the beautiful wedding and, oh gosh, we're newlyweds and the honeymoon, it's so much fun. And then, oh my gosh, you get pregnant. Oh my gosh, I'm having a child with this person I love so much. And then here comes the baby and everyone's exhausted because those babies just don't always sleep. And then pretty soon there's tension. So at a time when you would think just everyone's so happy. Let's just be honest and say no, that is super common for there to be a lot of stress during that time. You talk about that a little bit, and then I'd love to talk about some of your specific communication skills that you recommend.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 2:So you know, a lot of times we go into it, like you said, we're so looking forward to this next thing and this next thing, and then we had this little baby, who's wonderful, but we don't realize like this actually adds a lot of pressure to our relationship and our life.
Speaker 2:And you know it's a big transition to go from not having kids to having kids, as you know. So it's a lot of times moms will be surprised, especially in their marriages, like, wait a minute, like we're not communicating well or we're fighting or bickering a lot, like what is going on. This hasn't ever happened before and I think it's just the added pressure, you know, the lack of sleep, all of those things are playing a part where maybe we've had these communication issues that we really haven't had to deal with because there wasn't all of that added stuff, you know. So it's a great opportunity. That's how I choose to see it. It's a great opportunity when these things come up to go okay, wait a minute, let's reflect a little bit, let's assess, like, what's actually going on here. How can we build in a healthy way instead of becoming bitter and resentful towards each other because things have gotten a little hard, you know and?
Speaker 1:and that whole concept applies to every single stage of marriage. And I have, you know, we. I know people who've been married 25 years who haven't learned this skill, because it's not intuitive, it doesn't come naturally, it's not most of our human nature. So I want to read this example from Rachel's book. She talks about how can we speak to each other and to communicate our perspective, instead of attacking the other person. So I'll just say you know, let's say everyone's exhausted, you know the baby hasn't been sleeping and now the husband is yelling at the wife about something. She's a non-confrontational person and he's just a super vocal person, so for him yelling is not really a big deal, but for her it feels really uncomfortable. So, instead of our human nature might be, you are such a mean jerk and that will only create defensiveness, because you're pointing out, it's very subtle, she is attacking him, which is okay, right, because he's yelling at her right, and so then we have this negative thing that goes round and round and there might be slamming of doors involved.
Speaker 1:And you know, I'm just speaking hypothetically, I certainly wouldn't, wouldn't know this personally, ha ha ha. Instead, here's what my husband and I learned many, many, many years ago in marriage counseling and I am pointing this out because this is such a relationship saver. Instead of saying what they are doing wrong to offend us, instead we make it about us, because we can't possibly know how other people feel right, we can only know how we feel. So you could calmly let the other person first know how you feel and secondly know what you need. So you know my husband's yelling at me. Instead of saying you're such a mean jerk, I could say you know, I feel scared when you yell. I need you to talk in a quieter voice for us to have this conversation, and ideally he's going to respond and say oh, okay, I didn't mean to scare you.
Speaker 1:And you point out in your book that not only does this interaction deescalate the whole thing, you're being vulnerable to your spouse when you're saying I feel this and this is what I need. But you know how vulnerability feels on the other side. The other person is like, oh, she trusts me. And then we get this cycle of trust, which is intimacy, and this negative situation instead becomes a connecting point. And I only say that because I've experienced this personally. My husband and I communicate very differently today than we did when we were young marrieds, and we've been married 35 years and you know so, but it's not natural. So when you're talking about you had some examples here how about the young parents and they who haven't quite established the different roles? Let's just say the mom's doing all the diapers and the mom's doing the meals and she's starting to feel resentful. How could she approach this? What does she say?
Speaker 2:Yes, so she could. I even include like a list of feelings in the book because I know, just for me personally, you know I was so disconnected from my own heart and emotions during that time of postpartum. You're so tired anyway, you know, on top of all that, but I would literally have to look at a list of feelings and pick them out and go. I feel this way, you know, I feel tired, I feel exhausted, I feel sad, those kinds of things, and that sounds so elementary. But so many of us, like we really we haven't been brought up to do that, we weren't giving those tools, you know, and so we're having to relearn, like we really we haven't been brought up to do that, we weren't giving those tools, you know, and so we're having to relearn.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute, like what is going on? Because anger is such a secondary emotion most of the time. So if we're angry, if our husbands are angry, there's something else going on, you know, and they probably don't even know what it is, you know, because the anger can be so loud. So, going back to the I feel messages, you know, and it's really important to differentiate between I feel and I feel like, because a lot of times we'll try to do the I feel messages and it'll end up coming out like I feel, like you're mean, you know, and it's just kind of a shrouded way of you're mean. So going back to the I feel is always about us and what's going on in us. You know, I feel exhausted. Will you change the baby's diaper the next time they need it? You know, just very simple and I found to.
Speaker 2:Most dads are more than happy to jump in there and do things, but they feel a little lost in the beginning, like they feel a little helpless. When their baby cries they feel like mom does it better than they do and so they tend to just kind of step back when they actually need some like questions. You know. Hey, well, the next time the baby cries, will you get up and stay with them so I can get an hours of sleep? You know, most of them are like yes, sure, they just don't really know what to do and so giving them that direct just ask, which I know is so hard for us sometimes as women, just to ask, it's difficult, it feels risky and vulnerable, but I think it's really important to do that and it makes things go a little smoother because you get the help you need. They're involved, which they need to be involved. You know it's better for everybody.
Speaker 1:Well, you also make the point and I'm going to really sit on this one for a second, because it's so true that we all have our way of doing things. And so if you're the mom and you've been changing the diapers 90% of the time because your husband's at work and you decided to stop working let's just pick that kind of framework and it's your first baby and you've read all the books and you know exactly how to do everything. And then here comes your husband first baby and you've read all the books and you know exactly how to do everything. And then here comes your husband. We have to avoid criticizing how he does it unless the child's life is in danger. But otherwise, you know, maybe the diaper is backwards, maybe you know he's a little rougher with the baby than you might be, but still the baby likes it. And so you make a point in your book that you can't emasculate men by saying you're doing it wrong, because this is their connection with the child for the rest of the child's life.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah, yeah, and it's you know so good to be aware of that, because we, as moms, we have this brain plasticity thing going on, where things are changing. We feel vigilant over our baby and we're designed that way, you know. We're designed to put ourselves kind of on the back burner and take care of this new human life, you know, and make sure they have exactly what they need and all, and so it's normal for us, when we have him doing things, to feel a little bit of that like anxiety or wait a minute, that's not how I would do things, so it must be wrong. And just being aware of that and knowing you know it's, it's probably not wrong If, if your baby is safe, if he's a safe person, you know, and hopefully he is, if you chose to marry him, it's okay to just step back and let this kind of fatherhood thing play out.
Speaker 2:It's important for him, it's important for the baby. Like there's just something special in that bond that happens that we can't replace. You know, a mom can't replace or just different than a dad's is. So, yes, so good to be aware of that. Like, yes, I'm going to feel vigilant, I'm going to feel like I want to step in and not let anybody else help, but it's really important that I actually step back and let other people help.
Speaker 1:Yes, other people who love the child as much as you do. The other topic you talked about again this applies to our relationships, but boundaries and how to communicate boundaries and when you talked about that again, you know I am the mother-in-law so I want to be super, super careful not to, you know, alienate my daughter-in-law in any way. So you actually give some very good practical sentences that people can use in setting boundaries, but you also by the way, I just talked to my husband about this because I thought it was fascinating In the very end of the book you talk about, well, what boundaries really are. Boundaries are not being spiteful against the other person. Boundaries are protecting your own well-being. Could you elaborate on that for people to understand boundaries?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I share a little bit of a story in there. But you know, if we have trouble setting our own boundaries, you know, especially postpartum, we have this baby, maybe family's coming over, mom's, mom's, in-laws, whoever it is but we're not voicing like what we need or what we want, those kinds of things in a kind way. Of course, we begin to deal with that resentfulness and we kind of can get bitter if we're not careful. You know, if let's just say, our mom is coming over and saying, hey, you're spoiling your baby, you're letting them sleep on you too much, like that's not good for them, it's not good for you, but you're sitting there and you're just kind of keeping quiet about it all, you know, you're not saying anything, but this interaction continues to happen. Well, at some point you're getting resentful, you're getting bitter about the whole thing, and so it may be tempting to go, you know what, you don't get to see my child anymore, you know. Or you don't get to come over anymore, and kind of that hard close of the door and just taking that pause for a minute and going okay, why? Why do I feel like I need to set a boundary?
Speaker 2:There needed to be a boundary early on. You know, mom, I appreciate your advice. I'm going to run it by the pediatrician. Mom, I need to trust my own instincts here. I need you to give me some space to do that. You know, something simple like that would have probably fixed the problem. We don't know the mother, right, we don't know. But when we get down the road a little bit further and we begin to feel resentful, it becomes much more tempting just to shut this person off, and that's harmful. It's harmful to the relationship, something that could have been dealt with a long time ago. Just pausing and asking yourself, like, why am I doing this? And if it is because you're angry, if it is because it's just a, well, I'm going to show them kind of a thing we need to, just okay, that's probably not the right step to take, because our intentions aren't what they should be.
Speaker 1:That's right. So you know, as you said in the beginning, it all starts with talking to ourselves and saying what am I feeling? What am I feeling? Am I really? And again, this boundary thing isn't just for people who've had a baby, this is for all of us who have people in our lives who need boundaries. Is it really because, you know, am I setting this boundary for my own well-being? And I think if we can get to the point saying yes, it is for my own well-being, then there is a nice way to say it. So you know, I love these scripts you have. Let me give some examples. Here are some helpful scripts. You might need scripts. Here are some sentences.
Speaker 1:So let's suppose, the friend who maybe doesn't have a baby and doesn't understand what you're going through, she wants to get together and do lunch, like you always did lunch, and and you are just just barely, you know you're, you're treading water here. This is, and I understand you want to connect. I do too, but right now isn't good. You, you'd like me to play tennis, but I feel exhausted today. Let's plan for another time. Or how about the person who gives you and this will happen, the person who gives you, you know unsolicited medical advice about your child. I love this. Thank you for the feedback. We will discuss it with the pediatrician and I'm looking at this.
Speaker 1:So I'm thinking, you know, like with my daughter-in-law. Here's what I've learned from your book. Okay, my daughter-in-law is so sweet. She's like oh no, you know you can come over. And I'm like I would never come over. Well, we did buy a house a mile from them. So, anyway, let me just tell you that. So I'm like already hey, listen, we will never come by uninvited. And she's like well, I can't promise the same thing. I might come over uninvited. She's so sweet. But I also know, okay, the person who is so sweet is going to have the hardest time being honest with me.
Speaker 1:So I could start these conversations Like I'm giving her this book. I can say you know what conversations Like I'm giving her this book. I can say you know what I want to be helpful. So I think that means maybe I do grocery shopping for you, maybe I do your laundry. You know, I'm in the background. I can certainly make meals. You don't have to get up out of bed when I come. What are the easiest things that you can do to make their life easier. Maybe it's just she needs an hour nap. Can you just, you know, be on call for the baby? I mean those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:And then I took it a step further and thought be honest, I could make sardine and kale casserole, which I don't think exists and I hope it doesn't, but she's not going to tell me she hates it. So, beforehand, how about if I? Let's just be really honest, what is the kind of food you'd like me to make? I mean, these are not hard questions, but it could probably stop some resentment. But to give the other person permission, to give you boundaries I guess that's what I'm saying. We could be proactive here.
Speaker 1:To make sure, I did not have a great relationship with my mother-in-law, so I have this fear that it could become like that and I don't want it to be. So this super practical book funny, she has some good stories. There are some personal things here that I'm not going to share here. You know, in the whole physical world, connecting again in your relationship. But most of all, what I hear Rachel is like just let yourself truly enjoy being the parent of this new baby. Do not compare yourself to other people. Don't feel like you have to do it a certain way. If all you do is hold your baby all day long because that's what you want to do, that's fine.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, yes, for sure. And, man, I love your heart just towards your daughter-in-law. That's so special and I love how you said like giving them permission to set boundaries, and that you're also. I think this is a good point to make, because you're doing it automatically, but you're, you're checking on her, You're interested in her wellbeing, Like you aren't so focused on the baby that you don't see her, and that's so important. I think of course everybody gets so excited, you know, with this new baby. Of course you know, but a lot of times the mothers just get overlooked and it's like we're here to hold the baby, we're here to see the baby, you know there's so much focus there and, yes, we want to love the baby, but also see that mom and just hey, I brought you dinner.
Speaker 2:You know like you're talking about. I brought you this meal. Hey, do you need to go take a shower? Like, how can I help you? Just your language around that is just so beautiful and that's not always the case. I've taken care of a lot of parents and seen the dynamics with in-laws and parents and all that, and it's just not always the case, so that's something really special.
Speaker 1:Well, and I'll tell you, Rachel, in my generation I'm the old person talking I honestly, we did not have a book like this. We had the book what to Expect when You're Expecting, which was all about child care, and everyone read that and then there wasn't really anything after that, unless you wanted to really get into parenting books, which I never did because I didn't want to hear what I was doing wrong. That's terrible. This book is. First of all, it's a great read. I mean super easy to read. Her formatting is great. She has some journaling stuff, good questions, like I said, super practical tips on what to eat and what to expect of your body, and recipes. My husband's going to read it because we want him to not go in and say stupid things, and my son, my son so, and certainly Haley. But anyway, I just want to thank you for writing this book and I'm going to have information about how to order it in our show notes Again. It's called After Baby Comes and Rachel Taylor is the author.
Speaker 1:You can also find her. She has a website with her company, mamadiditcom. You can find her on Instagram. It's mamadidit official. We're going to have all the links here in the show notes, but I want to say that to people so you can just go follow her. Right now. There is someone in your life who you will have a better relationship with because you have read this book, and I want to thank you so much for that. I'm super excited about it. Thank you, I appreciate that. And how else can people get in touch with you? Or what do you want people to know about? Mama Did it your company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you covered where to find me. Really well, mama Did it. So there is an evidence-based blog for pregnancy, postpartum, breastfeeding. So my heart was just to create a safe space where moms could go and actually get resources that were correct, because, as you mentioned in the beginning, social media world, the way algorithms work, like we are being fed information that may not be accurate, you know, in our vulnerable postpartum new mom state, and so I wanted to create some things where, if they go there, they will get up to date, correct information. So that's where that blog is. There's definitely the books available there, coaching options if moms needed it, different classes that I teach here in Birmingham. So lots of different resources.
Speaker 1:Well, that's great. That's great. I think this generation has so much more available to them to help them get a healthy start on this crazy thing called parenthood. You love it, but it's probably the hardest job you'll ever have, right.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, I agree completely.
Speaker 1:And, by the way, folks, it never ends. My sons are in their 30s and yeah, but anyway, thank you so much. I appreciate your time and I look forward to seeing how your book does. Thank you so much.
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