Pivotal People
Join us in conversations with inspiring people doing amazing things. Their insights and experiences help motivate all of us to find our purpose that fits with our abilities, gifts and life situation. Get a "behind the scenes" look at successful people making a difference in the world and benefit from their advice for the rest of us. Our guests include authors, artists, leaders, coaches, pastors, business people and speakers.
Pivotal People
Return to Jesus: Embracing Divine Presence in Every Moment
Jen Thompson joins the podcast to discuss her new book "Return to Jesus" and shares how we can find Jesus in every beautiful, stressful, or tedious moment of our daily lives. Her warm wisdom and authentic storytelling offer practical ways to abide with Christ amidst life's chaos.
• Jen introduces her family life with husband Patrick and their four children
• The book emerged from her own need to find rhythms and habits amidst chaotic family life
• She transparently shares about supporting friends through traumatic circumstances and questioning God
• Even in our darkest moments and biggest regrets, God remains present and compassionate
• Letting go of self-judgment with the reminder that awareness of our shortcomings shows our good intentions
• Navigating divisive cultural climates by returning to Jesus rather than engaging in arguments
• The importance of looking up from our phones to connect with the people God places in our path
• Practical suggestions for digital detox to create space for genuine connection
Find Jen's book "Return to Jesus" wherever books are sold. Connect with Jen at jenthompsonauthor.com and listen to her podcast "Return to Jesus."
Order Stephanie's new book Imagine More: Do What You Love, Discover Your Potential
Learn more at StephanieNelson.com
Follow us on Instagram @stephanie_nelson_cm
Follow us on Facebook at CouponMom
I'd like to welcome Jen Thompson to the Pivotal People podcast. We got started a little late today because she is so much fun. We ended up talking for about 15 minutes before we even started. You are going to love her. You really are. Let me tell you about her quickly.
Speaker 1:Jen is an author, she's a speaker, she's a podcaster, she's a blogger. She has a great podcast called the Return to Jesus Podcast, and the reason she agreed to come on the podcast today is because she has a new book out. It's called Return to Jesus an invitation to abide with him in every beautiful, stressful or tedious moment. I actually read it twice. I read it twice because it is so easy to read, it's fun to read, but there's so much wisdom in here. I had to go back and really kind of skim and highlight and be prepared for this conversation. Because we have limited time and I want to hit the highlights, let me read you one of the endorsements of her book to give you a sense of what you're in for today. This is from Darren Whitehead. He's a senior pastor and he said In Return to Jesus, jen Thompson offers a heartfelt invitation to find Christ in every moment, whether beautiful, stressful or ordinary, with warmth and wisdom.
Speaker 1:She reminds us that Jesus is constantly reaching out to us, even in the midst of our daily routines, inviting us to abide with him. This book is a lifeline for anyone longing to experience deeper peace, joy and connection with Jesus in the everyday moments of life. And who doesn't want this is me, who doesn't want deeper peace, joy and connection. So this is a great book for anyone. Jen, thank you so much for being here. It's great to meet you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me, stephanie, and I just appreciate all your kind words, and I have already loved our conversation before you even hit record, so I can tell this is going to be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:And you have a lot to teach us. Let me tell you, jen has divided her book into three sections, so each section is five chapters. The first section really hits on personal topics. The second section hits on relational topics we do have to get along with people in the world right and the third hits on kind of community topics. You know, the greater body, the community. So, jen, I'd like to dive in Before we get started. Tell us a little bit about yourself, who you do life with, what your life looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. I married to my best friend, Patrick. We got together when I was 17 years old, which you know. That's the time in life when you feel like you're so old and you know everything and you're smarter than every grownup in your life, and now I'm like wow, I was actually really young. He is truly my best friend and we have four children Sophia, Amelia, Nyla and Patrick.
Speaker 2:Sophia is a senior at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville and she is coming home next weekend with half of her stuff and then the following week for the summer. So I can't believe that the first year of her college experience is already coming to a close, and next year our second daughter, Amelia, will be a senior. So we're just going to jump right back into all of that excitement and, yeah, life is good, Like I feel like it's just a sweet time, it's a busy time, it's a crazy time. I mean, I wrote this book because I needed to find the rhythms and habits myself in the chaos of life. There's a lot happening in everybody's worlds, in all six of our worlds, but it's just, it's a beautiful song and dance that I feel grateful to participate in every day. It's fun.
Speaker 1:Well, I have to know, for the mother of four children, what prompted you to write this book.
Speaker 2:So there were a few things, but I would say one of the biggest hearts behind this book is recognizing that we all are uniquely created, that we all have been given unique gifts and talents and purpose, and the Lord longs to meet with us in unique ways.
Speaker 2:I am very much kind of a I'm a type A personality, I'm a. I'm a box checker, I'm a rule follower, and so there was a time when that's what my faith looked like. It looked like checking off the boxes and following the rules. And now, in the season that I'm in, I've learned that I can abide with the Lord all throughout the day, and it changes in every season and it makes it exciting. It's an invitation to meet with him as opposed to like you must do this, and there's goodness in that too. Obviously, the Lord meets us in whatever way we meet with him, but I have just learned how to return to Jesus in the chaos of my days and I really wanted to share that encouragement with other people, because for me it's been just very life changing and life giving to recognize the invitations.
Speaker 1:Well, I love that. What I also appreciated about your book was your someone could hear that and they could think well, you know, jen really has her act together. You know she's a, she's a believer and she's abiding with Jesus, but you know she doesn't understand that. I've gone through some pretty hard stuff and there's some things I'm ashamed of and I'm going to tell you, no folks, that Jen is extremely honest in her book about trials you've been through I have just highlighted this book like crazy. So anyone who's listening to this could say well, you know she's got these four great kids and this great husband. Well, that's, that's pretty easy. Could you share with us, particularly your season when you had your dear friend and your friend's husband I mean you had some challenges what happened with your faith during that? Maybe you can give us that story.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely, Because I will say right now, I will never claim to have it all together. That is one of the things that I have really come to just embrace the grace of the Lord and my need for that grace each and every day. Because, oh man, yeah it just the ways that I can mess up in a day, it's pretty amazing, but there's grace to cover it all. And to specifically answer your question about that time in my life, that was a really hard time. It was August 8th 2012. And I was at the lake with my dear friend, jill, and we had our two daughters at the time and her daughter, kylie, was with us too and we received a call while we were at the lake that her husband had been in a lawnmower accident. And it was also the same day that my best friend, emily, was having her bone marrow transplant. And that day is one of those days that will just forever be etched in my mind.
Speaker 2:Rd ended up that Jill's husband ended up paralyzed as a result of the accident. He had burns covering the majority of his body and Emily ended up developing graft versus host disease. So that was a time when I was just praying all the time. Just Lord, take this like Lord, heal her, heal Emily, heal RD. There was so much pain I felt like everywhere I looked and I felt very immersed in it. We ended up keeping Kylie Jill's daughter and watching her so that she could be at the hospital with RD. I would spend nights with my friend Emily at the hospital, I would spend the days with the girls and I just started to really kind of wrestle and question and doubt like Lord, you know, you say you are good, but I'm not seeing goodness, I am seeing pain and I am exhausted and and it was a time where I was really crying out to him and taking all of that to him as authentically as I could.
Speaker 2:I have a very specific memory of driving back from the hospital late. It was a night that I wasn't spending the night with Emily, but I was driving back from the hospital because I think my husband had to be to work very early the next morning and it was rain, it was like pouring out and I remember just looking at the darkness and the rain is just pouring on my car and I'm sure, if I God, that's how I feel, like I just feel like it was like the rain for me was like a symbol of my tears, and the darkness was like the symbol of, like how I just felt we're far from him and he really met me in the car and reminded me like he was there. And now, as I look back at that time, I can see all the ways he provided, I can see his tenderness, I can see just how people were the hands and the feet of the Lord in such tangible, tangible ways, bringing meals or helping to rebuild Artie's house to make it wheelchair accessible. I mean, there were just so many things. I could go on and on and on.
Speaker 2:So I think what I just really learned is he can take my doubt, he can take my fears, he can take my anger and even when I feel like he is removed, he is there and he is also okay with me being like Lord. I don't see you right now. I don't feel you and I trust that. I trust that you're here and after enough time has passed from that storm, I feel like for me in my life. I can look back at those moments and I just feel how he was there with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what I liked about your book. You keep reminding us that God is with us. So even there was a couple of things. You know, I think we could all look back at our life. Maybe not everyone, okay. Let me just say I can look back at our life. Maybe not everyone, okay. Let me just say I can look back at my life and I have, you know, time periods in my life I really regret. You know, I can't erase those. We're supposed to look forward. The windshield's a lot bigger than the rear view mirror.
Speaker 1:And you said something I so loved. I mean, this was like double highlight. You know, I'm a mother I have painful memories of when I fell short. I can't erase those. And you said something. You said you're not a bad mother. If you were a bad mother, you wouldn't even think about if you were a bad mother. You're a good mother. You're a good mother because you want to be a good mother. You're not a bad mother. Oh my gosh, jen, thank you for I'm saying those words for anyone. I'm 61 years old and I'm still feeling badly about. I'm not even going to tell you, it's just you know. Oh my gosh, missing. You know the things whatever. You know, my sons now are 32 and 29, and I have heartfully you know heartfeltly apologize to them about these things that I've tormented myself with, and you know what they say.
Speaker 2:I don't remember that.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah. My one son said you know, mom, I have some. I have some really painful childhood memories, but none of them have to do with you and dad. Isn't that amazing. It was always stuff at school with other kids, that was it. Yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, so anyway, um we beat ourselves up.
Speaker 2:Right Like we beat ourselves up for it.
Speaker 1:We beat ourselves up. We can apply that concept to everything. Jen, you are not a bad friend. If you think you're a bad friend, then you're not one, because if you were, you wouldn't care. You're not a bad wife. We are just human beings, and I love how you talk about Jesus, because Jesus was fully human and fully God. Like you said, we can be honest with him about our feelings, we can be honest about our doubts. You know he was human, he experienced this.
Speaker 1:And what I also loved is let's talk about those time periods of our life that we might regret. This is just me, but there's like a, you know, a little time period in my 20s that I think we could like delete. We can delete. And it's funny because you think, okay, like I put God on the shelf during that time and then later in my life it came back to God and wow, that's where the peace and contentment is. You know, whatever that, you know whatever. Dating, mr Wrong in my 20s, that was not the peace and contentment, that's what you were seeking. So you think that you know I turned my back. Hey, you reminded us. God was with us during that time too. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. We're not hiding anything from him, and he still loves us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think about, like you said, that period of time you want to delete in your twenties, I think. If a lot of people are being honest, I feel like so many of us have, especially in that decade, there's like so usually like a point in time where it's like, ooh, those weren't the best choices ever. And yeah, but he was with us when I came to that realization. That really changed so much for me that in my moments when I felt the most furthest from him or that I had done something that would felt at that time felt unforgivable. I know now that that all things are forgiven and there's grace to cover it all.
Speaker 2:But when I think of back in those moments and I realized that he wouldn't be yelling at me or screaming at me or condemning me, like he would be holding me and he would be weeping for me and he would be weeping for me and he would be like extending his arms out to me, it really changed me everything. Because I think I looked at him for a while in my life as like this maybe angry judge in the sky, and then to recognize, oh no, that's the Lord isn't, that's he's. He's compassionate and he's with us in those moments and we don't have to hide. He knows everything and he took it all. He took it all when he died on the cross. He took all of that. Nothing is a surprise, like there are parts of our story that maybe we're like oh, I didn't see that one coming, but he did. He saw it.
Speaker 2:And that never changed his love for us. But it's just really letting that just really settle into our spirits and that can take time, Like that can take a lot of work to and healing and going back to him and it's not necessarily just like always. Sometimes it is for some people, but it's always it's like quick, quick thing, it's a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that it's so easy I mean, these are standard themes, but it's so easy to compare and so we're comparing our like my son will say, we're comparing our blooper reel to people's highlight reels, Because we don't know everyone's story, we don't know what they're hiding. And so the truth is, we all have and you have a whole chapter about this which I really appreciated, Like you can't make it to the age I am without having a few, you know regrets and therefore their secrets. Why do I want to tell people that? So then, those secrets but they're not secrets from God and releasing our secrets is what gives us freedom.
Speaker 1:And maybe there's a trusted friend you could share that secret with, and maybe that would be helpful. But maybe you don't even want to share it with a person, you don't want to cement it, but you could sit down and you could tug on every single detail, even though he already knows it, and feel a freedom. Yes, and that is when you talk about abiding. I think about this whole idea of he really is our friend. I mean, he's all kinds of things, he's creator, he's savior, he's redeemer, he's all of these things, but he is our friend if we accept that.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that. Yeah, he is. And, like you think about a friend, like you want to sit across from them and have coffee with them and talk to them and share with them, and that's how I imagine the Lord just longing for us just to just to sit with him, just to give it to him, and I love that. You said, too that even if you're not ready to speak those words to someone else, just start by speaking to the Lord and trusting with him with it. I think is just a huge place to go and not easy, but it really does transform, I think, your life.
Speaker 1:Transform. You know it is funny that the older if we're you know, I like to believe. If we're really walking in faith, if we're really trying to get to know God better, you know, reading books like Jen's, then that's a really good way to get to know God better. You know, reading the Bible is great, Reading devotionals is great, but to me, every time I read another person's perspective on this amazing thing called God and Jesus and faith, it gets me one step closer to feeling like I understand him and this is all true, like it's. Also, I need to be reminded every single day that this is true, because it's really too good to be true.
Speaker 2:It does feel that way, like how, like this is just a free gift, like I just, I just get like every day I just get this free gift from the Lord. And that is so counter-cultural. Our, our culture says oh no, somebody is trying to give you something for free. You, you should run the other way, and but no, that is what God gives us every day.
Speaker 1:Well, and countercultural is grace. Grace, I mean judgment. You've got to talk about judgment. I mean I'm guilty of that. It's like wait a second, stephanie, you don't get to judge someone else because you're not the judge. That is not your job, and there are plenty of times where I remember that and that is also freeing, like you don't have to have a position, an opinion on everything, especially someone else's life. Yeah, especially if you've never walked in those shoes. Do you really get to? And I have to just remind myself, not only shouldn't you do that, but you don't have to do it.
Speaker 1:I've had friends say to me Stephanie, you need to take a stand. You need to say more on your social media about X, y, Z, some topic that's super important to them. I'm like, if you notice my social media, it's really just about God, because that's the thing that I like to talk about. There's no recipes or exercise routines. I'm not great at either of those I love. So the whole judgment piece, especially in our world today, and your whole section talking about community and talking about how crazy and divisive we've become. Can we talk for a minute about the unity you talk about?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, and I really appreciate what you just said about your social feed, because I have very much done the same. I remain incredibly neutral in the spaces where I reside, and that's intentional. I just want to share the love of Christ with all people. And it's so noisy and it's so loud and actually the return to Jesus kind of my way of just thinking about returning to him actually was kind of originally born from some of the divisiveness we see right now.
Speaker 2:And I just remember like multiple times looking, scrolling through social media and just seeing just the really inciting and nasty comments just back and forth between people that I know love the Lord. I know they both do, there is no question but they were just so focused on these other things that it's like they were missing each other. And I'm not saying that because I've got this all figured out. I'm just saying like I realized in that moment like I don't need to make sense of all of this that's happening. I don't need to. I just need to return to Jesus, try to love as he loved, ask where he's serving where, where can I meet with him? What does he have called for, like for me to do? And also recognizing that like, even though I'm not maybe being vocal about everything I think or believe other than my faith, on my, in my social spaces, people don't know what I'm doing on my own, like maybe, where I'm donating money or where I am serving in my community, or there are so many ways the Lord calls us.
Speaker 2:If we feel a passion or a stir inside of us, that doesn't have to be inciting. I guess it's just like, Lord, you've put this passion on my heart. Show me what to do with it, Show me who you want me to walk alongside right now. And that's how I'm dealing with all of this. I'm just returning to Jesus, loving as best as I can and asking him to please help me when I feel that kind of start to that angsty feeling of yes, it's happening here.
Speaker 1:As I as I try to remember a quote from Bob Goff, and he just says this. He just says why does anyone really care what my opinion is? Yeah, yeah, like, let's turn it around back on ourselves. Who do we think we are that anyone? And if Bob Goff can say why does anyone care? Actually, bob, I really do care what your opinion is, because I respect you and what's your opinion. He's just going to say why does anyone care what my opinion is?
Speaker 2:I love that so much. Cause, then, and also you're taking it back to it's not about me, it's just about me, it's about the Lord.
Speaker 1:Right, there's something else in your book that really convicted me. Like this is the kind of thing I'm going to write on an index card. I love this podcast I told Jen before I started because I get this privilege of reading people's books who are so wise and entertaining and I love to read and their topics are so great. I feel like I get a little closer to God with each book and then I get to talk to the author and then you get to listen to the author. But, generally speaking, with every book I read, there is one really key point that I say Stephanie, you have got to start doing this, and I have this index card from the last podcast and it really does help. So what I got from your book and lots of things Very end. This is why everyone has to finish books, you guys, because this was at the end of Jen's book. You talked about the idea of how tied up we are in our phones and how we can't even you know. If we're in the grocery store line, we're looking at our phone. If we are in a waiting room, we're looking at our phone this fear of being bored or this fear of having to sit with our thoughts and you talked about looking around and just seeing a bunch of hunched shoulders instead of. What are we missing by not connecting with the person sitting next to us? I'll tell you this and I'm going to interject, but then, jen, I really want you to elaborate on this because I would like people to write this down on their index card.
Speaker 1:25 years ago, I was at a local TV show with my Coupon Mom project and no one you know five people were using my website. You know it was tiny. I'd been working at it for three years. I really believed in this idea that if people would use grocery coupons, they could save so much money that they could donate some food to charity. I was on fire for this idea. Smartphones didn't exist yet and at this TV show I had tried so hard to get on TV, you know, because we didn't have social media yet, so the only way you could get an idea out there was to get on television or radio, and that was hard. You have a lot of gatekeepers with that, and so we didn't have smartphones.
Speaker 1:I'm at this show and when you're going to go on, for I think it's seven minutes and if with each, it was a new show, local, just local new show. There are 15 minute sections and there are two people for each 15 minutes and then a commercial. And two people for each 15, then a commercial. So you're waiting in the wings with the one other person who is in your 15-minute segment. If smartphones had existed back then we both would have been looking down at our phones.
Speaker 1:But instead what happened? It was 7, 15 in the morning or some crazy early time, maybe 8, 15, was this guy and I struck up a conversation and he was a national TV person and he knew everybody and after he saw my little demo of how to get groceries free with coupons, he said you know, you've got to get on national TV. He gave me the name of the top producer at Good Morning America and that is what started Coupon Mom. Top producer at Good Morning America. And that is what started Coupon Mom, which the Good Morning America had me on. I wrote a whole book about it called Imagine More. Here's my shameless plug, but you really should read it because God's amazing.
Speaker 2:I'm going to read that.
Speaker 1:That sounds incredible. What if we were both on our smartphones? That's what I think we miss so much. I just gave one teeny little example. We don't know what conversation especially as believers the person sitting next to us. Maybe their mother just died, maybe they need someone to talk to, maybe you could be that light in their day. There's so many things that we're missing. So I do that. Okay, I'm checking my phone. I'm checking to see you know how many people listen to this podcast today. I got to put the phone down, you know. I have got to make sure that I don't miss the person sitting next to me anymore. The grocery store line, the sitting at the airport, you know. So I did too much talking about that, but that convicted me. Could you tell me what you teach in your book and how would you talk to people about this idea?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I absolutely love that story because and I'm convicted by that story because, even though I wrote about it, it's a, it's something I very much struggle with and I think you are. I mean, you are so spot on Like hats what do we miss? Like what in the world? What connections are we missing? What people are we missing that maybe need a word of encouragement or just even a smile? So in the book I share, I had I went through a period a little while ago when I had a tick on my toe and that tick gave me a trace amount of ehrlichiosis which I didn't even know that that was a thing in my blood, but it caused like just some problems.
Speaker 2:Then I had to keep going to all these doctors and it happened to fall during the same time that my church. I go to church of the city here in the Nashville area and they were doing a digital detox for a month. So they very much were encouraging people to look at smartphone usage, look at how often we're on our devices, and gave us very tangible ways to kind of pare that down. And once I did that, I was like, oh my goodness, I had no clue how much I was on my phone until I wasn't, and then it was.
Speaker 2:This moment was like when did this happen?
Speaker 2:Like when did I start to just live, like I say, with hunt shoulders, like just like this, everywhere I went, and and then, as I started to look up, I was like, oh wow, this is just, it's everywhere, it's everywhere.
Speaker 2:And we miss so much when we are living that way. And I feel like one of the invitations that the Lord gives us in our community, like I was saying before, is to to see the people that he puts in our path, to see the people that are surrounding us at any given moment and to pray for them, smile, like I said, smile at them, offer them a word of encouragement, ask if they need help, like I just even think of myself when the kids were so young and I would be at Target or the grocery store and people would be having, like the kids would be having a meltdown, and I can remember various times when somebody would approach me in those moments, not with words of condemnation, or get your act together or get those kids out of here, but with you're doing a great job or you know how can I help you, and they saw me and that stuck with me.
Speaker 2:And a stranger would come to me in this moment of mom guilt questioning why you know, am I a horrible mother, my children are melting down at target.
Speaker 2:Well, no you're not a part of it. Just the trip took too long and they're hungry and they're tired and they're there too, you know. So this is what happens. So I just think I want to be, I want to be that person in target, walking up to that mom and saying, hey, can I give you a hand? Or hey, you're doing a good job. Or seeing somebody has a tear rolling down their cheek and say, can I pray for you, Offering them a tissue. But I can't do that, If I'm not comfortable being in spaces without this, because I do think that we have, we at least for me.
Speaker 2:Once I stepped away from my phone more, I realized, oh, I've kind of forgotten how to even think. Like I don't even let myself think, it's like I have a spare minute of time and instead of just standing there and thinking or praying or it's just, oh, okay, I have a minute and I don't want to live that way. So I just really wanted to have that chapter in the book, just to encourage people, but also like I'm very much like no shame, no guilt, but just to even just take it to the Lord, like Lord, is there something I can let go if, with my phone, Is there an app maybe I could remove for a season or game I could get rid of, just for a period of time? You know, nothing has to be forever, but just challenging like can you let go of something for at least a little bit and see what impact it has on your life?
Speaker 1:at least a little bit and see what impact it has, yeah, on your life. Well, I'm going to try it, I'm going to email you and let you know. But you know, it's so funny because even sitting here talking about it, I'm like, well, when am I going to start? Well, maybe next week, cause I've got this. Maybe not a whole month, you know, maybe you just try a couple of days. It's like, wow, baby steps.
Speaker 1:Baby steps. It's all baby steps. Right, you might need a 12-step program. This is like not to make fun of this 12. We can all benefit from the 12-step program for anything, anyway. So, jan, I have kept hey it's hard, it's not easy.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you saying that, because I mean, that's one of the things I've been even convicted of since writing the book. I'm like Lord if I'm going to write this book, I want to be living out the words that I've shared. So, even you know, trying to adopt these rhythms and habits myself, but then also recognizing there's grace, like some days. Some days we might be on our devices more than others, but the Lord knows our heart and we're all trying our best.
Speaker 1:So that's right, and so I want to tell people, I want to really encourage you to do this digital detox, with the exception of Jen's podcast and my podcast, that's right.
Speaker 1:Just kidding, I have kept you longer than I told her, but you can see why, right, jen is so delightful. Tune Tune in, jen. I want to tell people how they can find you. Her website has everything in one place and it's jenthompsonauthorcom, and that's Thompson with a P. As I said, she's got a great blog. It's called Truly Yours, jen. She talks about faith and family, parenting, friendship, forgiveness, all kinds of things and, of course, her podcast. But, most importantly, I'd really encourage you not just to get her book, which is out now, return to Jesus, but give it to someone as a gift. That's a really loving thing you could do. I can't think of very many people who wouldn't appreciate her words. Even if you have a friend who isn't particularly a strong believer, that's okay, because her book, I think, will speak to everyone. There's not a bunch of Christianese, it's not woo-woo, it's really just honest, heartfelt learnings that all of us could relate to. So, jen, thanks so much for that, and I've said how to find you, but do you want to add anything to that?
Speaker 2:No, I just want to say, stephanie, this has been so much fun. Your words have really just been a gift to my heart. Thank you for just sharing the book and thank you for having me as a guest. I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and I think you're just such a joy, so I am Well. Thank you, I appreciate that too.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for having me. We'll have you with your next book, all right, thank you, I like that.
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