Pivotal People

Heads or Tails: How Perspective Rewrites Your Story

• Stephanie Nelson • Season 5 • Episode 132

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We share Kevin Delaney’s story from life-threatening illness to purposeful living, and explore how quotes, perspective, and daily discipline can reshape a noisy life. Contentment, health span, and identity-based habits tie together into a practical path forward.

• near-death experience leading to a new life mission
• purpose inside and beyond the corporate world
• why negative words weigh more and how to counter them
• timeless wisdom from Socrates to Frankl
• contentment as knowing enough, not chasing more
• perspective as a daily choice under pressure
• discipline versus regret framed as timing your pain
• daily habits, two-minute starts, identity-based change
• health span over lifespan as the real target
• reading, reflection, and Words to Wonder as a daily dose
• newsletter Take Two as a weekly reset

Sign up for Kevin’s free Take Two newsletter at kevinjohndelaney.com — two minutes to reset, recharge, and reimagine the life you’d like to live


Save 70%! Order Stephanie's book Imagine More: Do What You Love, Discover Your Potential

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SPEAKER_00:

I'd like to welcome Kevin Delaney to the Pivotal People podcast. He is a person that I met about four years ago at a Bob Goff workshop. We talked briefly about this amazing story and life perspective he has. And I have not forgotten that conversation. And then I learned a couple of weeks ago that he has come out with a new book. And I emailed him and said, Would you please come on the Pivotal People Podcast? And he was kind enough to say yes. So I'm so excited he's here. Let me tell you about him. And then let me turn it over to him because he is a master storyteller and he is so inspirational. He spent 25 years as an HR executive in Silicon Valley. He worked for big name companies. You might have heard of Microsoft, Samsung, and he was also the vice president of learning and development at LinkedIn. But then, and I'm gonna let him tell you the story, when he was 42, he had a significant health crisis that kind of turned his life around. Eventually, he left the corporate world four years ago, and now he spends his time writing and speaking and inspiring people to live better lives. He's written three books. We're talking about his third book today. His first was called Cracking the Career Code. Five years ago, he wrote A Life Worth Living, Finding Your Purpose and Daring to Live the Life You've Imagined. And the book we're talking about today is a companion guide to that book. It is a book of quotes. It's called Words to Wonder 100 Quotes with Reflections and Stories to inspire the life you've imagined. And you know that I have read this book because I read every book. And this is a book I said to my husband this morning, I got it on Kindle so I could get it quickly and read it quickly. But this is a book we are buying for our coffee table because I want people who are in our home to out of curiosity pick the book up. And if they only read one quote with one reflection that Kevin's written, they are going to be inspired and something good is going to come of it. So I want to thank you, Kevin, for writing this book and for coming on the podcast. And I would love to have you share your story with everyone.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, thanks, Stephanie. Very good to see you again. And thanks for having me. I think we all have a great story. And I wish everyone would pause to sort of look back and uncover the gems that are their life. But for me, I needed a slap across the head 17 years ago, six months. Life was good. I was in the kitchen before work, had a blackout episode. I was unconscious till paramedics came. And that started me on a six-month journey of doctors poking and prodding, trying to figure out what was going on. I had a pacemaker put in, it ripped out. I had another one put in. I had a gallbladder surgery, and it was all supposed to be normal. And then a fever spiked. I went into the doctor for what I thought was a question or two on what's going on and ended up in a coma and body started shutting down dramatically. And uh while I was in a coma, doctors met with my family and said, he's got about 24 hours to live. We are at the end. Uh, they threw the Hail Mary Pass and put me on the organ transplant list, and I ended up with a liver transplant that saved my life. I woke up confused because I knew none of that was happening and had a million questions, but a very new perspective that, you know, life is very delicate, it's precious, and it can change in a moment. And so I really did set out to say, I don't know how many days I get to live, how many hours. I think that was the first question when I was conscious after the coma, like, how long do I get to live? And the doctor said, we don't know. We suggest you just get busy living with whatever days you have. And so now I've been intentional about life for the last 17 and a half years, just trying to make it all that I can. And along the way, I found I really believe everybody has that yearning and desire to make the very most of their life. And so that really became sort of purpose for me to say, how can I help people live better lives? And at the time I was in the corporate world. And so I took a very unorthodox approach. My first book I thought would be about career, because it's what I spent my career doing is helping people figure out how to promote and be successful. And I sat down to write it, and uh, it just wasn't where my heart was. I was thinking far more about life and purpose and meaning. And so I ended up writing a life worth living as my first book. And I thought there was zero application in the corporate world. I didn't write it for the corporate audience, and yet, who knew? There was a hunger at the time where I think corporate America just yearns for realness and vulnerability, and COVID was all around the corner. And so I ended up delivering uh keynote talks on a life worth living, probably you know, 500 times, where I found there was a huge appetite for purpose and meaning inside the corporate world. Then I set out to write my book that I was supposed to write originally, The Cracking the Career Code: How to Be Successful at Work Without Losing Your Personal Life along the way. And strange as it is, my first book, I really struggled to figure out how to do this. But for me, writing every day was key. So I sat down to write cracking the career code and I knew I should write every day. But honestly, there were days I had zero desire to think about or talk about or write about the corporate world. And so I discovered a secret for me I call purposeful procrastination, where I knew the principle of my life in writing was write every day. And on the days I just had zero desire to write about the corporate world, I started writing something else. And it all came together about a year ago. My dad died. And as you would expect, yeah, it, you know, I think it's that season of life, but it's it hits. And I was in the process that unfortunately I think we all go through. You're going through your dad's stuff and you're seeing his handwritten notes. And my dad had a love for words. He had scraps of paper with the most impeccable penmanship with quotes written out. And he had stacks of books on quotations, and I've gathered quotations for decades. And so I became enthralled with all these scraps of paper and my dad's books on these thousands of quotes. And I was just reflecting in them and I started gathering them and adding them to my collection. And then the real prompt for me was I wanted to go further. So I started reflecting on that. I started writing about the reflections that those quotes prompted in me. And I originally started this just for myself. But as it came together, I really felt it was a book where the world's full of a bunch of negative stuff. And I don't know if you know this, but on average, we hear about 30,000 words a day.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Take that over a year, 11 million words bombarding us. And I stop and think, okay, how many of those are positive versus negative? And we hear the news and we hear social media, and I'm guessing the preponderance of those is negative. And there's studies saying that negative words actually hit us harder and have a deeper weight. Sometimes two to one, three to one, that we remember the critiques and the criticisms. When our boss says something mean to us, that's what sticks in our mind, not the 25 other compliments we hear. And I had this very real understanding that if we're getting more negative than positive, and if the negative weighs more, if we want to elevate life, we need to elevate our words. And for me, this project became seeing my dad and his love for words, married with my own, and then realizing it was a heavy season and I wanted to elevate sort of the things I was thinking about. And words to wonder came out of that, was just me for myself writing words that I thought would be positive and worth reflecting on. And then I decided to share it. So take those two together, deciding uh 17 years ago, I want to really focus on purpose and living intentionally with you know all I can. And then coming to this place of words to wonder, uh, wanting to reflect on the best things in life, I think that's how we elevate life. So that's how I got here.

SPEAKER_00:

And what I appreciate about words to wonder, as I said earlier, is that you're not just giving us the quote. Right. You're really helping us think through, as you can imagine, so far, anyone listening to this realizes that Kevin is a very wise man. He's been through a difficult situation and he's turned it around, he's learned from it, and he's teaching others. So when I read his reflections and perspective on the quotes, it is better than my own thinking. I he it's like he's holding my hand and helping me really understand not only what the quote means, but how it can apply to my life. And what I am fascinated by is how timeless wisdom is. So when we look at some of the quotes, some are from Socrates, for those of you who didn't take philosophy in college, I didn't. Socrates is about 400 BC. And he's talking about the same thing that you know Mel Robbins is talking about. He's talking about the same thing Bob Goff is talking about. Seneca. Seneca was a stoic. I didn't realize, lived at the same time as Jesus. Born about four years before, lived about 30 years longer. Again, the same kind of wisdom. And Shakespeare. Shakespeare was what, the 1500s? Same kind of thing. So the times have changed, the cultures have changed. But it's interesting to me that the human spirit hasn't. And we know this from reading the Bible, right? The same kinds of themes and messages were being dealt with 2,000 years ago. I said to Kevin before we started, his book is organized nicely around common themes. And there are so many good ones. I took way too many notes. I copied down way too many quotes. I'm like overprepared, so I know I just can't read all these out loud. So what I'm gonna do instead is I'm gonna throw out the topics and have Kevin elaborate because he's the expert here. You spent so much time on the topic of contentment, and I so loved it. And just a just a little bit. I'm just gonna read a little bit, then Kevin's gonna elaborate. Contentment may be one of life's most worthy pursuits. It frees us from the relentless push for more and allows us to find peace and satisfaction in what we already have. Wow. How much easier is that than trying to change our circumstance? I'm handing it over to you.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it. Well, I think contentment, if you were to bring it down, you ask a thousand people in a survey, you know, what do you want most in life? A bunch are gonna say, I want to be wealthy, I want to be famous, I want to be. I don't think anyone would say, I want to be content. Some might lean to happiness, but I came to this point of understanding happiness can be very fleeting. I had a great round of golf, I'm happy. I had a terrible round of golf, I'm unhappy. And I used to have a perspective that your reactions were a normal course of life, that something happens and there's a normal way to respond. And I was challenged by that on a number of different occasions. I think the one that stands out to me was from the author of You Gotta Keep Dancing, that was Tim Hansel. And I didn't write about it in this chapter, but it's so similar. I just debated on where I should put it. And he said, God has given us the immense freedom to choose to be as miserable as we want to be. And I remember when I read that, I thought, well, wait, wait, wait, wait. I might be miserable, but I'm certainly not choosing it. Because the implications are if I'm miserable, I'm choosing it. No, no, no, no, you don't understand. This happened, therefore, I have a right to be miserable. And he said, No, you know, it's all about how we choose to look at things. And for me, I realized that part of it is perspective and part of it is contentment, is realizing enough is enough. And I opened that chapter with the story of Kurt Vonnegut and Joseph Heller, two authors who, you know, very famous, uh, were attending historically, this is the myth as it is, or the reality, I'm not sure. Joseph Heller, who wrote the uh catch 22 and Kurt Vonnegut wrote Slaughterhouse 5, they were attending a lavish party and they were walking around these huge, enormous grand grounds where the opulence was evident everywhere. And at one point, Vonnegut kind of was teasing Joseph Heller and he said, Hey Joe, how does it make you feel that just yesterday our host may have made more money than you'll make in the entirety of the lifetime of Catch 22? And without missing a beat, Joseph Heller said, Well, I've got something he can never have. Well, that intrigued Vonnegut. He said, What on earth could that be, Joe? He has everything. And Heller answered, The knowledge I've got enough. The concept of enough, I think, is so missing from our cultural dialogue. And if I could boil it down, what do I want? I want to know I have enough. I have enough money, I have enough relationships, I have enough time to do everything God wants me to do. I have enough energy to, you know, make life very interesting. And I started realizing contentment to me is far more valuable a goal than happiness, which is fleeting and can be driven circumstantially. And so uh contentment became my ultimate goal. Like if I could pick it, that's it. I want to be content with my marriage, with my kids, with my finances, with how I spend my time, what I do with the legacy of my life. And it's a great aspirational goal. But like Joseph Heller, I want to be at a place where I can say, you know what, I've got enough.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's what I love is the freedom of saying I have enough, saying, you know, it is enough that I am home watching a movie on a Saturday night with my husband who I love. That is enough. Am I being invited to a million parties? No, that's okay. I'm content watching a movie with the people you love the most, or you talk about that a lot in this book about how we choose to spend our time and what really brings us contentment. You also talked a lot about perspective. I loved this one. You can decide. You can decide to be happy. You can decide it's fully available to us. This was my big revelation to my husband at lunch today. I was like, it's fully available to us every minute. We can just decide to be happy. Everything doesn't have to be perfect first.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, perspective, I think, is something I try to remind myself every day. You know, there's so many cliches, but they're baked in the reality of, you know, your life right now is something somebody is hoping and dreaming for. And unfortunately, I think C.S. Lewis wrote about the circles of life that you get here and you want what the next person has who has more than you. And but that person wants what the next person has, and that person wants what the next person has. And you have to pause to say it never ends. So you might as well get out of that rat race, if you will. And it struck me a few different ways. One of the key ways was with Victor Frankel. Uh, amazing story. He was a psychologist who studied suicidal people, and uh, he was also Jewish. The Holocaust came and he was rounded up not as a doctor, but as a prisoner in the concentration camps. And so here he is in the concentration camps, and all this work that he's done about people being depressed, he's now in this strange place where he's living, in my mind, the worst conditions possible. But he realizes at the end, we all can have things ripped away from us, but one thing. Nobody can take away how we choose to respond to a particular circumstance. To have that shift in perspective, to realize no matter how much people take a control away from you, there is ultimately the control of I get to choose how I will respond. And so often that is perspective. In my first book, I wrote about Joey Johnny Jones, who was uh a soldier. He was in Afghanistan, getting rid of improvised explosive devices. Unfortunately, one day when he was out with his crew, he took a step, IED blew up and killed one of his colleagues. They were all injured. But Joey lost both of his legs, depressed in the hospital, thinking life as I know it is over. But had this moment where he realized look, I ended up living, not everybody did or does. So I can mope for the rest of my days, or I can realize I can live. That's the choice. And he chose to become an advocate for people going through hard times. And he turned to see the positive and he chose a perspective. And I love it. He has a quote where he goes through and says, People ask me how I can be upbeat with no legs. And I simply ask them, How can you be so negative when you have both of yours? And there's just a moment of saying, we can choose to look at the heads or the tails of the coin. You can look around the world and whatever it is you're looking for, you will find. So if you're looking for flaws in people, you will find them. If you're looking for terrible things in the world, you will find them. But if you're looking for kindness and grace, there are a multitude of examples happening all around us. And so what I realized is perspective is a choice. Perspective is choosing to see the positive versus the negative, which means you have to look for the positive. It doesn't mean you're denying that, you know, negative things are happening. But if in fact my life will be shaped by the thoughts that I have, I get to pick which ones I dwell on. And that was sort of the point of words to wonder. I thought, you know what? We're inundated with a lot of negative stuff. And if you want to elevate your life, you have to consume more positive information. And so I wrote this so I could literally have a daily dose of inspiration and perspective to read some timeless wisdom and then to challenge myself with my reflections to say, will you choose today to look for the negative stuff in the world, the negative stuff in people, or will you choose to realize, you know, I've got two legs and I can see and all those things? I always give the example. You wake up with a headache, and all you think about is, oh man, I wish I could get rid of this headache. It's driving me nuts. And yet, 320, 340, maybe 364 days a year, we wake up without a headache. And how many times do we stop and say, huh? Wow, I just woke up and I am so excited. I don't have a headache right now. I'm going to get on with my day. And so choice is an amazing process, but it takes discipline. And so that's why when I wrote this book, I encourage people to read it slowly. Don't blitz through. You could, but I really think read one or two a day as that dose to remind you choose to be courageous, choose to be content, choose to see the perspectives that will elevate your life versus those that will tear you down.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm just sitting here smiling and nodding and smiling and nodding because I did buzz through it because it's like um eating potato chips. You just want to read the next one, you just want to read the next one. But it is one of those evergreen books. You want to have it on the coffee table and you want to pick it up and you want your kids to read it. You also talked a lot about discipline and determination. So when you talk about purpose and life purpose, sometimes we get bogged down and thinking that means I got, oh, I have to do something really big when it can be simply right where you are. How can you be intentional and more kind and more loving and more generous right where you are? How to be present every day. And you talk about discipline and determination. So what if you do have a big goal? Well, that's just not achievable. I can't do that. I'm not like that. And you kind of spin that thought on its head. Could you elaborate on that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think discipline gets a bad rap. It's sort of, oh, that's hard. You know, you read a David Goggins book who, you know, can't hurt me. For those of you who haven't read it, he's basically a Navy SEAL, he's a ranger, he's an ultra-marathoner, he's done things no human being could do. I think he, you know, set the world record for pull-ups, some ungodly thousands of push-ups or pull-ups in a 24-hour period. I read books like that and I think, yeah, that that's that's not me. But what I realized is when we write off discipline that quick, we miss out on the beauty that comes from discipline. And many years ago, a quote that stuck with me is from a guy I listened to often. It was kind of my first challenge to, you know, how I think will shape my life. And it was from a guy named Jim Rohn. And I wrote uh one of his quotes, he said, Everyone must choose one of two pains, the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. The difference is discipline weighs ounces while regret weighs tons. And you realize that take your health. You can eat whatever you want, do whatever you want, and be lazy. And that is at some point, it will be a pain. At the back end of your life, you'll pay the regret that weighs tons. The short term would be I'm gonna choose a little bit different in the dietary push, or I'm gonna make sure I exercise. And there's a pain to that too. But compared to your health going down the drain and losing years of your life or losing your mobility because you stopped exercising or getting diabetes and now you're, you know, limited with dialysis and all those things. I think sometimes we believe there's a path that has no pain. That's the one that is deceptive because you think I'm I'm taking the pain-free road. And what that really probably equates to is you're choosing no discipline now, which means you're choosing the ton of regret later. And for me, it all comes back to that. Discipline is me getting to choose which pain I want. And for me, I want the one that only weighs ounces. I don't want the pain that weighs tons. And I realize that that means that choice becomes the more important factor in discipline. And I used to think it was a character flaw. Like I have blue eyes, I'm six foot three, and I have discipline. Or, you know, I that's that's and I don't have discipline. And it's not that. Discipline is the choice of when you want to pay the price for whichever of the regrets you're gonna end up choosing. And I realized I want to pay the one with the least amount of pain. And that really is the one comically that is pay it now so you don't have to pay deeply and dearly later.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I heard a podcast about this today, interviewing thousands of people were interviewed in a study who were in their 80s, 90s, and even hundreds. And when they talked about greatest regrets, because we can't undo regrets, right? We have to learn to live with them because we can't undo them. And so they're kind of warning the younger ones of us who are saying, Oh, it's okay if I, you know, enjoy my lifestyle now because if I die when I'm 69 or 79, I'd rather enjoy my life now and just die 10 years sooner. And these older people are like, that's not how it goes. The way it goes is the medical community can keep you alive and you will simply be unwell and you will be uncomfortable and you'll be dealing with chronic issues for the last 10 or 20 years of your life. That was kind of sobering to me because it's not about mortality, it's about what do they call it? It's um being welderly, my brother says.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, welderly. I like it.

SPEAKER_00:

We want to be welderly.

SPEAKER_01:

I heard health span. It struck me. We always talk about what's a lifespan, lifespan, health span being the far more important of the two. If you live to be 100, but you're incapacitated from the time you're 70, that's a rough final 30 years. And so, you know, I think Chuck Swindahl had another quote I loved it. It was a different perspective. He said, There are 365 days in the average year. Divide any project by 365, and you'll find that no job is all that intimidating. All it takes is discipline, daily discipline, not annual discipline. And I love that perspective because true for me, when I started writing books, I probably started 20 books, I'd get 30 pages in, totally lost, confused, throw them away. The key for me on the first book was as soon as I started writing daily. And I believe there is a power in daily practices, those that sort of slowly add up to greatness or you know, terribleness. But I love that he calls out look, it's only discipline, daily discipline, not annual. And we try to think, uh, I think Jim Rohn used to say the old adage, an apple a day keeps the doctor away. So, you know, the key is a day. You don't get to the end of the month and say, I've been really busy, so I'll just eat 31 apples on January 31st and it's all good. Or at the end of the year, I'll just sit down in one big day and eat 365 apples. It's the daily part that really creates the magic of discipline. And that has really challenged me to say, okay, what do I do every day without fail, good or bad? And that becomes the key to discipline to me, not the David Goggins, I have a mental interior that will allow me to, you know, push through pain at some unbelievable pace.

SPEAKER_00:

I've read the book Atomic Habits this year. And I know that title is scary to some people, but let me tell you what, it actually helped make it easy to set positive habits. And one thing I took away from that was okay, we we want to do something daily. Like let's suppose do 15 minutes of these core exercises because you're supposed to do that. If you only show up and do one minute, that's okay because what you're establishing is a habit. And so I don't want to do 15 minutes. You know what? You don't have to. You can just do one minute. Just make sure that you keep that daily habit. And that has been powerful. That has really it only takes a few weeks to really form a habit. So I I'll admit, you know, I've I've done five minutes before, three minutes, four minutes, but then you do 15. But you're you're in the habit of showing up to where you're supposed to be. So any habit can be that way. I think it's interesting what you just said, Kevin. There are plenty of habits that we have no problem doing every day. Let's look at what those are. Oh okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I spoke with James Clear, the author of Atomic Habits, and we got into a conversation. And I loved when he was talking about he was working with a client who wanted to lose weight. And they thought, you know, I've tried to go to the gym, I've tried to do all those things. And he said, no, we're gonna take a different approach. He said, Here's your here's your objective. You're gonna go to the gym, you're gonna go into the locker room, you're gonna change into your gym clothes, and then you're gonna immediately change out of your gym clothes and go home. And the guy was very confused, like, I don't understand. He goes, do that for a week and then we'll meet. And so you're wait, do I understand? Go to the gym, get in my gym clothes, get back in my street clothes and leave. He said, Yes. And they met a week later. He said, now you get to go to the gym, you get to go do one exercise and then change out of your clothes and go. And his point was, you need to change who you are. You need to get the identity that I am somebody who goes to the gym.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And once you embody the I am the identity of somebody who goes to the gym, you can expand to your point. 10 minutes of exercise, 15, 30. The hardest piece for us is getting in the car and getting to the gym. So he established the practice and pattern of I'm a guy who goes to the gym every day, left out the part that said, I don't exercise, I just go there. But I think there's such wisdom to that. And he talks of another point of when you set goals, make sure they take no longer than two minutes to begin. Longer than two minutes, then you will fall out of the habit. And what you're most interested in is becoming something that is a daily practice. So I love lowering the bar. Give me something I'm only going to commit to two minutes today. And over time, it probably will turn into something once it's a daily practice.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. You're already in the close. I also liked how we said, okay, it's okay if you miss one day.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But if you miss two days, you are starting a new habit.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

You also referred to Victor Frankel. We do have to say uh man's search for meaning, that is a must read for all of us. It's a very thin book, but it's that's one where I see that on sale at like a news book sale. I always buy multiple ones of those, and everyone should have that book. Everyone should have Words to Wonder and also your first book, A Life Worth Living. They go together. I will say I got them both on Kindle for a very good price. So price is not anyone's barrier here. It's go to Amazon and uh he also has it in other formats. And I said I need the coffee table one for your quotes. I so appreciate your time and your perspective. And I said I would only keep you half an hour, I kept them longer, but I could keep you two hours and keep asking you questions, but then no one would need to buy the book. So now I've gone to your website. Your website is everyone, it's kevinjohndelaney.com. Correct. Yep. And he has a newsletter. I signed up. Tell us about your newsletter.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's called Take Two. Uh, it is really two minutes to reset, reimagine the life you want to live. I find that most of life and most of learning is being reminded of what we already learned and have forgotten or have simply not focused on right now. So the take two newsletter short takes two minutes to read. I send it every Thursday. It includes the constructs of like a words to wonder with perspectives to ponder. So I always take some quotes and reflections and put them in. I have things you should try, things you uh could steal, like ideas, just it is under the uh auspices of how do we have information that helps us live life better, more intentionally and more meaningfully. So I'm a voracious reader and consumer of content, and I am basically passing on to other people and my readers just things that I think will help them. That's it. There's no subscriptions, there's no anything. It is uh discipline for me to keep my brain focused on consuming elevated words for my own edification, if you will. Uh, and I find that when I have to do the research to cull down meaningful content to share with people who subscribe to the newsletter, it keeps me in a really good place of consuming good information. So uh yeah, it's free every Thursday, two minutes to reset, recharge, and reimagine the life you'd like to live. And uh encourage you. Come sign up and try it if you like it. And um for me, I love writing it because, like I said, it steeps me in stories of people. I love stories. I remember them. Uh, I'm encouraged to hear of people who had things far worse than I do and then have made something far more than I have, just to be reminded of the possibility that exists for all of us. And so uh I love searching for and sharing those kinds of stories.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you. And then people can obviously you're a speaker. People can get information about Kevin's availability on his website. Is there anything else we should know? And you can find us folks on Amazon.

SPEAKER_01:

Read, read, read. I I love it. It's one of my great passions. It's funny. Me too. Four years into this thing that's called retirement, call it left the corporate world. It's an interesting journey of just how would you spend your time if it was a blank sheet of paper? And to me, it's evolving all the time. But I have realized that whatever it is that is out there, consuming good words is a part of that equation to make sure that we are keeping the perspective and contentment that uh makes life operate at its very best. So uh invite you to not just read my books, but other ones. Uh, and if you find them, share them with me. I am on the constant quest for great books and speeches and anything in between. But I always want to say thank you for having me on the podcast and just for getting to talk about uplifting words and just on the topics themselves. So I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I appreciate it too. As you said, we have way too many negative words being thrown at us every week. So let's surround ourselves by some positive words, starting with this podcast, then once a week with your newsletter. I look forward to reading your next book.

SPEAKER_01:

I appreciate it. Thanks so much, Stephanie.

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Stephanie Nelson

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